Opinions on boats we saw today Please.

Alistairr

Alistairr

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We went to Largs and Kip used boat shows today and saw quite a variety of boats around our budget.

I'd appreciate your opinion on them please, what you think of them, are they good sea boats, easy to sail for a newbie, and would you think it suitable for us as a first boat sailing in the Clyde.

The boats we saw and liked were:

Westerley Centaur
Maxi 84
Seamaster 925
Hunter Duette
Highlander 28
Gibsea 76
Vancover 34 Classic.

Ok the last one isn't an option but is very nice. So what do you think of the others?

Also with the current economic market the way it is, what would be a sencible offer on a boat these days? 10% or even 20% under the market value?? I know one of the boats above which was being pushed at us is a stock boat and not on brokerage, and I get the feeling the broker wants to get rid, I just wonder would they accept a silly offer in these difficult times!!

All info and advice much appreciated, thanks.

Cheers

Al.
PS, Troon and Ardrossan shows tomorrow! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
They are all good boats in their own right - each will have positive and negative aspects, there is no 'perfect' boat as such.

Do you 'need' to have bilge keels (eg the Centaur) on the Clyde?
If not, then a fin keel boat might be more suitable(?)

If you are faced with a wide choice of yachts that appeal, try narrowing them down, let your emotions have some say re aesthetics, is she good looking, does she make your heart beat faster looking at her?
OK, the Vancouver 34 Classic would, definitely, but then she would be at least 5 times the cost of the others.....
But then dont let emotions over-rule practicality and sensibility!

Re offers, after recent experience of being involved in the purchase of a boat, where we offered 15% less than the asking price and it was accepted immediately, I would say definitely come in initially at 20% less - they can only say no. Or maybe even yes.
 
Al, out of the bunch you mention, I only know the Centeur fairley well.
They were/are a very strong sea kindly boat, not the fastest, or if bilge keeler not the best to windward, but definatly a solid safe boat offering good accomadition and easy handling.
When I was after my first boat, I had made up my mind it was to be a Centeur, unfortunatly after traveling near and far I couldent find one in good enough condition, and ended up buying the HB at Kip, while down looking at other smaller boats for sale.
The seamasters are similar in design to some of the Westerly's.
Incidently how much was the Vancouver 34 going for? as there was a beutiful one at largs a few wks ago, for somewhre around 80k odds.
Now that is the boat I would like.
C_W
 
Hi Alistair,

I had a Centaur ( the C layout ) and was always very happy with it. She didn't sail particulary sporty but I always felt very safe on her in the rough stuff. If you had a force 5 or 6 she really picked up her skirts and drove on. The Knuckle in the bow did a great job in keeping her dry and that was with occasionally being able to see the windward bilge keel at times! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif No point in trying to make way into a 6+, it just wasn't fun at sea (no problems in sheltered areas).

With the Bilge keels there was always a safety net of knowing that running aground in the sandy areas of our local cruising was never going to cause trouble as she'd just sit there upright until the tide returned to a more helpfull state.

There was plenty of accomodation for her length and good side decks and railings for keeping little people on board.

There are a lot of them about so if you are thinking of one take a good look around as there always seemed to several for sale that had "optimistic" prices. when we bought ours we offered 20% below the asking price and it was accepted - that was 10 years ago this month - sigh!

I would look for the usual things with any boat - how old/well maintained is the engine? Age/quaility of the sails/rigging? etc.

Westerly specific .... Is the Water tank in good condition (i.e. is it leaking? ) it's buried under the vee berth and it's major surgery to deal with. Has the Westerly Droop (Headlings) been taken care of? ( pain in the rear end job to do if not!) take a look at the Westerly Owners Website for loads of info on them. I also seem to remember that if the original engine was in there (MD2A or something) there seemed to be an lot of messages on the Westerly forum involving "problems" - probably the same with any 30 year old engine /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Have fun looking,

Jason.
 
Oh and one other thing,

If any of them have a Volvo 2002, check to see if it falls in the production batch that could suffer from a sudden and permanent loss of drive.

There are a couple of fixes available but they all involve removing the gearbox (and my ribs still remember the pain!) and replacing some parts - the Westerly website probably still has info on it somewhere. I had to do the job on mine the year before I sold it. It's currently owned by a friend of mine and we removed the gearbox a year or two ago and the fix was still fine.

J.
 
If offering on a second-hand boat at the shows make an offer that is low verging on the ridicules. Remember you can always up your offer and a low offer will make a broker suggest that you do so if they think it too low. With a very low offer you can often get a broker to let slip what they think the owner would accept. A lot of boats are going at the moment for 25% to 33% below asking.
 
What is a boat worth, what is a company worth ??
These are questions being battled at the moment?
Everything is only worth what you can persuade some one to buy it for !!!
 
al,
forget the advice re yachts that will be great in f5 or 6 cos, with callum, you wont be going out in these forces, will you ?
your good lady fancies a moody 31. i would go for that. nice boat, good accomodation, well built etc.
 
Had a Hunter Duette, fantastic boat, well built and holds its value very well. Maybe a tad cramped though compared with some of the others, but as a first boat it would be a great choice.
 
[ QUOTE ]
your good lady fancies a moody 31. i would go for that. nice boat, good accomodation, well built etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your good lady has a good eye then. I traded up from a Snapdragon 26 to a Moody 31 after 4 years of just pottering about daysailing. The Moody seemed huge for the first 5 minutes but it was much easier to sail because it had all the proper gear - track for the main, ST winches etc. So much easier that the first trip in it was 300 miles home from Plymouth (not non-stop of course) and I now sail single handed. Very well built, plenty of room and a great owners association with top website.

You will soon notice that an older boat like a Centaur is just that - old fashioned and all that goes with it.

Everyone worries about the gearbox issue in boats like Moodys with the Volvo Penta 2000 series engine but many have now been fixed. I did mine two years ago - a bit of effort and £400. Lots of advice available on that front so don't let that be the decider. A good engine is a must for family cruising.
 
Pretty eclectic selection here. All suitable as first boat, but very different in style. Assume your budget is £10k +/- £2k, judging from the boats you have listed. Once you have decided on the style, then you have to consider economics. Usual first boat lasts 3-4 years before you get the urge to move on. So the key thing is to avoid any major expenditure in that time. Normal running costs will be the same whichever boat you choose. But in this price range, new kit is disproportionate to boat price. New engine 40%, new sails, 10-15%, osmosis treatment 30-40%, re-upholstery 10-15% and so on. So you need to draw up a list of these expensive items and either negotiate price down or walk away.

As to making an offer. There are 34 Centaurs listed with brokers at the moment varying from £8-15k with most in the £10-12k range. They sell fairly readily so the market price is probably around £10k. Plus and minus is a function of age, condition and kit. So do a comparison to get a feel for what you can get and pitch your bid accordingly. Not so easy to do this on other boats as there are not so many for sale, so you are back to drawing up your list of features and setting your own budget.

Good luck
 
Re price - we sold & bought at the beginning of the year and both went for about 75-80% of the original optimistic asking price; who knows now? I would try at least 25% off the asking price - more if its sitting at the top of the range - you can easily go up!
 
Vancover 34 Classic.

***************************************************

Well I have to smile as you cover almost the whole range from the Centaur to the Vancouver. However you miss out two of the best for the west coast.

The Vancouver was I understand sold....To the fellow selling the Vertue. Now that Vertue is a real sailing boat /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I felt the Centaur and the Chieftain were a little tired but would tidy up nicely though might need re engining at some point.

Really the chaoice is yours however for the west coast a pilot house is nice so how about the Nauticat 33 .
 
[ QUOTE ]
al,
forget the advice re yachts that will be great in f5 or 6 cos, with callum, you wont be going out in these forces, will you ?
your good lady fancies a moody 31. i would go for that. nice boat, good accomodation, well built etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes she does, and there was one at Largs yesterday, but at £36k sadly its out of our price range!! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Cheers

Al.
 
Agreed ... non of these boats would be a bad choice .... and whichever you choose, you will probably look to move on in 2 - 4 years (especially given that you have already started thinking about your next boat /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Its more important to choose one that you like, that doesn't need lots of £££ spending on it + will sell when you are ready ......than one that will torture you every weekend with problems and expenses.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Vancover 34 Classic.

***************************************************

Well I have to smile as you cover almost the whole range from the Centaur to the Vancouver. However you miss out two of the best for the west coast.

The Vancouver was I understand sold....To the fellow selling the Vertue. Now that Vertue is a real sailing boat /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I felt the Centaur and the Chieftain were a little tired but would tidy up nicely though might need re engining at some point.

Really the chaoice is yours however for the west coast a pilot house is nice so how about the Nauticat 33 .

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes my wife liked the Vertue too, but the I wasn't too sure of the Black hull!

The Nauticat, I presume you are talking about the one at Kip? Well yes, What a fantastic looking boat, she was simply stunning and affordable at £65k for someone, but sadly not us!

We really set out with a £10k budget, buts its always nice to look at stuff outside of the budget too.

The Seamaster 925 is the boat that was getting pushed at us, as its a Stock boat, and not Brokerage.
I told the dealer its outside our budget at £16,500. But he was still pushing it saying its a fantastic sea boat.
And last night, I was beginning to wonder with a boat that they have in stock, is he pushing to get rid, or is it seriously a good boat, and could it be got for nearer our budget?

Thanks for all info so far guys.

Cheers

Al.
 
We didn't get inside it.

I have to say, the way Euroyachts operate it is very good, all the boats are open and you can go on anything you want.
Kip is a bit of a pain, you go and look at the boat, then go back and sign for the keys, go back down and open up the boat, look around, then take the keys back up to the tent, and then go back down and look at the other boats again, and if you see something else you might like, then you need to do it all over again.

Bit of a pain really, so didn't bother.

Looked nice form the outside though, I wondered if a bit small for us.

Cheers

Al.
 
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