Operating a 50ft yacht around Italy, Spain or France: Reliable Estimations on Costs, Facts & Figures

[benjenbav]

It's very simple: I am not a Billionaire with an anual income of 1-3 Mio. - I have to find some balance with my live and my family ... I do not count on each 1000 euro... The adventure and hapiness of cruising around the Med. has high priority - the magic moments living for some time on sea can not be valued in a "workbook".
The last three years I did not find people or owners who are really telling you the facts and figures ....

I appreciate the intention but, bluntly you’ve come up with a ‘garbage in, garbage out’ model.

Why don’t you isolate the known costs, such as:

berthing - phone round likely destinations for 2025 figures; assume inflationary increases thereafter. Also taxes etc.

fuel - again speak to suppliers in likely destinations for current costs; assume inflation.

Insurance - again speak to providers etc.

With anything that isn’t going to be reasonably predictable you will need to take a different approach.

For example;

Maintenance is really difficult bcs (a) it’s a boat (b) it’s not new and stuff will be worn out at differing rates and (c) it’s subjective: other folks’ experiences may or may not correspond well with yours. I guess this is the one area where you might get some useful numbers from people who have run similar boats for similar purposes. But even so: build in a big contingency.

Good luck. I know I wouldn’t have the nerve to do what you’re proposing if the likely cost was hugely material in the context of my life.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

@Skipper Felice I agree with BJB above. Going into this with your eyes open is a good idea, boats cost money and if you can afford it that’s fine, but what if not? You need a realistic understanding of the likely costs so you can come to a decision about whether you can afford it. Hence your spreadsheet no doubt.

However my view is that you’re over analysing it, you cannot reliably predict costs for. 20-30 year old boat in 12 months time let alone 5 years. Decide what you can afford, if the rough numbers look comfortable then go ahead, if they look scary / unaffordable then don’t.

 

[Skipper Felice]

@Skipper Felice I agree with BJB above. Going into this with your eyes open is a good idea, boats cost money and if you can afford it that’s fine, but what if not? You need a realistic understanding of the likely costs so you can come to a decision about whether you can afford it. Hence your spreadsheet no doubt.

However my view is that you’re over analysing it, you cannot reliably predict costs for. 20-30 year old boat in 12 months time let alone 5 years.

Decide what you can afford, if the rough numbers look comfortable then go ahead, if they look scary / unaffordable then don’t.

Thanks ! At the moment all the figures look ok for me and I get some confidence, that I am on the right track.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Thanks ! At the moment all the figures look ok for me and I get some confidence, that I am on the right track.

Well, that should give you the confidence to go for it!

 

[Dogone]

Thanks ! At the moment all the figures look ok for me and I get some confidence, that I am on the right track.

It looks not too far out.

I’d also add the opportunity cost of capital. Spending €320k on a boat instead of investing it well is reducing your wealth by the lost investment returns. Say €16k pa on top of your costs.

I’d also reflect inflation on the capital cost, as to maintain your lifestyle you need to replace the boat after a number of years with a newer one and with inflation it will cost you more than depreciation alone. Add say €10k pa.

A decent sum needs setting aside for contingencies also. €5 would be my guess.

Round it off at a convenient €100k to cover everything. Lose that without concern and you will be set up to have fun.

 

[petem]

Ref the 300 hours per year, can I take it that you're planning some kind of "grand tour"? How do you think this will work from a cruising perspective? Do you envisage cruising for a few hours each day then stopping at a nice marina for a few nights, or longer if the weather doesn't allow you to continue?

 

[Hurricane]

Ref the 300 hours per year, can I take it that you're planning some kind of "grand tour"? How do you think this will work from a cruising perspective? Do you envisage cruising for a few hours each day then stopping at a nice marina for a few nights, or longer if the weather doesn't allow you to continue?

I hadn't seen that Pete
I've just checked our logs - in the first two years, we did approximately 300 hours.
That was from new and included our delivery trips - 2 in UK waters - 1 out to Spain and a return trip from Spain to Malta.
That was about 4000 nautical miles.
So, IMO, 300 hours a year is WAY over estimated.

 

[Skipper Felice]

Ref the 300 hours per year, can I take it that you're planning some kind of "grand tour"? How do you think this will work from a cruising perspective? Do you envisage cruising for a few hours each day then stopping at a nice marina for a few nights, or longer if the weather doesn't allow you to continue?

Yes - the plan is to be on the boat for 10 - 14 weeks each season and to sail around some regions. Some nights in a marina, harbour - other times anchoring during good / reasonable weather. All depends on weather, sun, fun and good livestyle ... and sceenic places.

 

[Skipper Felice]

I hadn't seen that Pete
I've just checked our logs - in the first two years, we did approximately 300 hours.
That was from new and included our delivery trips - 2 in UK waters - 1 out to Spain and a return trip from Spain to Malta.
That was about 4000 nautical miles.
So, IMO, 300 hours a year is WAY over estimated.

Ok - I will try to make some better estimations: the plan is to be on the boat for 10 - 14 weeks each season and to sail around some regions. This out from the "home base" Genoa. It will be around 1000 nm per year.
Example: Genoa - La Spezia - Bastia (Corse) - Bonifacio - La Madaleina (round Sardegnia) - Olbia - Calgary - West Coast Sardegnia - Corse - Ajacco (Corse) - back to Genoa = appx. 900 sm

 

[DavidJ]

Ok - I will try to make some better estimations: the plan is to be on the boat for 10 - 14 weeks each season and to sail around some regions. This out from the "home base" Genoa. It will be around 1000 nm per year.
Example: Genoa - La Spezia - Bastia (Corse) - Bonifacio - La Madaleina (round Sardegnia) - Olbia - Calgary - West Coast Sardegnia - Corse - Ajacco (Corse) - back to Genoa = appx. 900 sm

I like your example.
In fact our first adventure in our new boat 23 years ago was almost that. Our start point was La Napoule (France) in the spring and we wintered in Ostia (Rome) which was great because we could really do the city at our leisure and the marina was lively with livaboards
We did have difficulty finding medium term marina places though and I can only assume it hadn’t got better.

In fact @jfm got us our first berth at La Napoule through a contact called Bart
(That was a long time ago)

 

[jfm]

Ok - I will try to make some better estimations: the plan is to be on the boat for 10 - 14 weeks each season and to sail around some regions. This out from the "home base" Genoa. It will be around 1000 nm per year.
Example: Genoa - La Spezia - Bastia (Corse) - Bonifacio - La Madaleina (round Sardegnia) - Olbia - Calgary - West Coast Sardegnia - Corse - Ajacco (Corse) - back to Genoa = appx. 900 sm

That's a nice trip for one season but it's 150 hours not 300.

300 hours is a lot in one season. Perfectly possible of course, but a boat is a base for having fun on, not a mode of transport (imho). The most fun on a boat is when it's stopped.

 

[jfm]

I like your example.
In fact our first adventure in our new boat 23 years ago was almost that. Our start point was La Napoule (France) in the spring and we wintered in Ostia (Rome) which was great because we could really do the city at our leisure and the marina was lively with livaboards
We did have difficulty finding medium term marina places though and I can only assume it hadn’t got better.

In fact @jfm got us our first berth at La Napoule through a contact called Bart
(That was a long time ago)

Long time ago! Bart is still going strong

 

[Tranona]

Ok - I will try to make some better estimations: the plan is to be on the boat for 10 - 14 weeks each season and to sail around some regions. This out from the "home base" Genoa. It will be around 1000 nm per year.
Example: Genoa - La Spezia - Bastia (Corse) - Bonifacio - La Madaleina (round Sardegnia) - Olbia - Calgary - West Coast Sardegnia - Corse - Ajacco (Corse) - back to Genoa = appx. 900 sm

At displacement speeds that is only 100 hours a year. At planing speeds about 40 hours

 

[jfm]

I’d also add the opportunity cost of capital. Spending €320k on a boat instead of investing it well is reducing your wealth by the lost investment returns. Say €16k pa on top of your costs.

Of course you can do this if you want, but I personally see it as a bit of madness .

If you just get your cash flows correct, and have some fun along the way, that's all that matters and the analysis can stop there. All this "annualising of depreciation" and "opportunity cost of capital" might float some people's boats but it's all theoretical nonsense in my book.

I suggest people focus only on the reality of cash flows and stop there.

 

[Forty_Two]

Long time ago! Bart is still going strong

Indeed he is, bought my berth through him in 2002

 

[Tranona]

Of course you can do this if you want, but I personally see it as a bit of madness .

If you just get your cash flows correct, and have some fun along the way, that's all that matters and the analysis can stop there. All this "annualising of depreciation" and "opportunity cost of capital" might float some people's boats but it's all theoretical nonsense in my book. I suggest people focus only on the reality of cash flow and stop there.

Agree totally. Boats are toys and perhaps better to treat as a sunk cost. There is no reliable way of determining residual values or annual rates of depreciation. All you can do is try and maintain the fabric of the boat within your annual running costs in an attempt to maximise its market value when the time comes to sell. What comes back to you is a bonus. Hopefully enough to contribute to your next toy or pass on to your heirs if you don't need to consume it.

 

[DavidJ]

Long time ago! Bart is still going strong

That’s nice to know.
One of our fondest memories was turning up late at night at La Napoule and there was our lovely brand new boat freshly delivered from Sealine in the Hamble beautifully prepared by Bart with all the lights on looking fantastic.

 

[petem]

a boat is a base for having fun on, not a mode of transport (imho)

Exactly. Three hundred hours in a season on a 50ft mobo is not my idea of fun. And I've never come across anyone who would contemplate that many hours.

 

[Skipper Felice]

If you just get your cash flows correct, and have some fun along the way, that's all that matters and the analysis can stop there. All this "annualising of depreciation" and "opportunity cost of capital" might float some people's boats but it's all theoretical nonsense in my book.

I fully agree ) - I did some "invest / value deperciation" modell just as a reference for a guess what could be the selling price of the vessel after some years (with good maintenance and carefull usage).
What do you think of taking some guests that pay for some vacation weeks and enjoy yachting lifestyle?

 

[benjenbav]

…
What do you think of taking some guests that pay for some vacation weeks and enjoy yachting lifestyle?

You’d be into coding the boat or sailing uninsured and exposing yourself to a mega liability if anyone were to get hurt.