Operating a 50ft yacht around Italy, Spain or France: Reliable Estimations on Costs, Facts & Figures

[Skipper Felice]

It's great fun sailing a yacht on the Mediterranean and enjoying life, but it's difficult to calculate reliable costs and figures for planning purposes. Many owners don't want to talk about the real facts and figures?

I have tried to make a plan over 6 years with the relevant cost estimates. As a newcomer, these are estimates with experience as a holiday charterer. The plan shoul be valid for a used Princess 50ft motoryacht, age 15-20 years, propulsion appx 2x 700hp.
May I ask for comments from experienced yacht owners: corrections or better values or wrong estimates I will gladly include in the plan.
All values are Euros.

 

[Moderator]

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[markc]

Insurance looks too low. Also, are you master of the toolbox or will you be relying on outside help for general maintenance? I think you need to allow at least £3k PA to cover ongoing maintenance & replacement. All sorts will require attention, from batteries, toilets, AC, refrigeration, passerelle etc, in addition to engine maintenance.

 

[Hurricane]

While it is understandable that you are budgeting, there is a LOT in that list that can go wrong.
Also it is very dependant on where you intend keeping the boat.
It seems to me that you should consider this as a "moving" budget.
We bought our Princess 67 new, 17 years ago and I didn't budget to that degree.
Of course, you have to know that you can afford it.
I don't like paying over the odds so for me every expenditure is scrutinised.
I may not be the average boater but I've never planned to that degree.

One of your larger expenses is mooring costs which, IMO, are about right "on average".
However mooring costs will vary enormously from location to location.
Annual contracts will bring the mooring costs down as well.
For example on the South of France and in Mallorca, your mooring costs will be too light but (say) on mainland Med Spain, you will make significant savings.
As an example in our marina (Sant Carles - Spain) you could get a 15m berth privately rented for around 4500 euros for the whole year including electricity and water etc.
OK, so thats an extreme example but it shows my point.

So, to recap, I don't think I can comment too much on your overall costings.
Yes, you have to have some kind of budget but I wonder how useful a detailed list like this is.
And remember, boating is full of unexpected costs.

 

[jfm]

The spreadsheet is a personal choice, but I don't love this approach. It is just a bunch of guesses.

No-one can help you with mooring costs until we know where. Insurance looks light - you need 0.6% Fuel looks light at 1.55 next year. Engines surely D12 not D9 in this boat (?)

Treating depreciation as an annual thing, in same way you have treated opex, is ok if that's what you want to do but I'd question the sanity. Depreciation involves involves no cash outflow,

The bottom 1/3rd of the model doesn't seem to work. If looks like fuel is 11,160 in the first year, yet you have written 17,298. You seemed to have grabbed a value from the cell above, or something.

"Italy France Croatia Greece" is a very ambitious cruising schedule for such a small boat. I don't want to say you can't do it but I'm fairly confident it will present challenges. Especially unstabilised and with only 2,000 litres of fuel which will rule out some of the long legs of this type of cruise.

 

[red124]

"Italy France Croatia Greece" is a very ambitious cruising schedule for such a small boat. I don't want to say you can't do it but I'm fairly confident it will present challenges. Especially unstabilised and with only 2,000 litres of fuel which will rule out some of the long legs of this type of cruise.

I agree.... To ambitious for a 50 footer....

 

[Skipper Felice]

Insurance looks too low. Also, are you master of the toolbox or will you be relying on outside help for general maintenance? I think you need to allow at least £3k PA to cover ongoing maintenance & replacement. All sorts will require attention, from batteries, toilets, AC, refrigeration, passerelle etc, in addition to engine maintenance.Hi

Hello - and thanks for your remarks.
I am a systems engineer with over 40 years experience, I own a MBA and I can fix many things with my own hands. I have no deep knowledge with marine diesels - but basic things will be learned. I have a Swiss yacht master licence and around 4 years of charter experience. But for some special maintenance I will relay on professional help.

 

[Skipper Felice]

I agree.... To ambitious for a 50 footer....

jfm: Italy France Croatia Greece" is a very ambitious cruising schedule for such a small boat. I don't want to say you can't do it but I'm fairly confident it will present challenges. Especially unstabilised and with only 2,000 litres of fuel which will rule out some of the long legs of this type of cruise.

Thanks - I have to be more specific:
The plan is to have a berth during winter time (october - april) in Italy. Some place around Genoa, perhaps Varazze, or Arenzano or La Spezia.
During summer time I will be around an other place: 2025 will be Italy & Sardegnia / Elba. 2026 South of Italy, Naples, 2027 perhaps Croatia - and one or two years I would like to cruise the Aegean Sea / Greece.

 

[DavidJ]

If you take Croatia and Greece out of the equation then very doable with a 50ft boat
Over the last 20 years we have covered most of the European Med in a 37ft boat albeit going back and forth not livaboarding and generally just the two of us. At 50ft you have the advantage of finding marina spaces (relatively) easily.
Having just sold my last boat your figures explain why I’m feeling so wealthy at the moment

 

[Skipper Felice]

Ok - version 2 of my "Pirate-Yachting" planning ... with some clarifications and corrections >

 

[PlanB]

We did something similar when we set off on our boating adventure in 2002 with a ten year old Princess 435 (I'm an accountant and control freak).
We set off for the Med and ended up as liveaboards in Spain.
I kept detailed detailed records but abandoned the running total concept after about three years as the excess of actual over budget was terrifying!
The main variances were repairs and maintenance, as things go wrong that you can hardly imagine, and fuel, as it coincided with the first major hike in prices.
As someone said above, you just have to know you can afford it.
At one point, we wondered aloud if we would have done the boating thing at all if we had known how much it was really going to cost.
Actually, we had such a wonderful time that the answer was a resounding "yes".

 

[Portofino]

We operated a 700 Hp 48 ft sports cruiser in Italy .Recently sold up *
Beth ( Loano ) about €9000 , insurance €1000 online craft insure . Sundries repairs / maintenance aggregate to approx €5000 , this includes covers / cushions, engine - lub filters service ( DIY ) etc .
Haul out annual for antifoul , polish , anodes + minor stuff better done on the hard Eg odd seacock etc €3500 .
That’s €17500 . Some yrs the maintenance/ repairs would be less so say it could be €10_12 K .inc the engines every yr of course .
Then there’s fuel now @1.90 ish last time I filled up .
That’s a how longs a piece of string Q .
We sometimes cruised @ D speed , but mostly at 80 % load burning 180-190 L/hr but just under 30 knots so could comfortably in this boat easily cover 100 miles in 3 hrs . Taking between 500-600 L out of the 2200 we set with .
So around €900 for 1/2 day .

I have to say we were at a different stage to you as had previously bombed about the big islands S , talking 19 yrs at it .
So in the later yrs because we figured out the Med sea, sand and sun are the same locally ( it’s takes few yrs for this lesson to hit home ) we did between 50-80 hrs / yr .

I think I I was planning on your itinerary and with time I would get a sail boat .

Most yrs all in I mentally thought it was around €15000- 20000 all in .Never did a spread sheet just knew i didn’t need one .

I choose wisely in the sense I sold it for 50 % more than I paid for it , had it 10 yrs .
A moot point on here the weather never really bothered it , nor our plans to use it .


* Other time commitments.

 

[Skipper Felice]

We did something similar when we set off on our boating adventure in 2002 with a ten year old Princess 435 (I'm an accountant and control freak).
We set off for the Med and ended up as liveaboards in Spain.
I kept detailed detailed records but abandoned the running total concept after about three years as the excess of actual over budget was terrifying!
The main variances were repairs and maintenance, as things go wrong that you can hardly imagine, and fuel, as it coincided with the first major hike in prices.
As someone said above, you just have to know you can afford it.
At one point, we wondered aloud if we would have done the boating thing at all if we had known how much it was really going to cost.
Actually, we had such a wonderful time that the answer was a resounding "yes".

Thank you PlanB ... this gives me a strong indication, that my plan is ok and most of the facts & figures are +/- in line with other boaters and owners around.

 

[dunedin]

jfm: Italy France Croatia Greece" is a very ambitious cruising schedule for such a small boat. ………

I can’t add anything on the running costs, but that statement did raise a smile when referring to a 50 foot boat!
Many people have circumnavigated the globe in boats less than half that in length (and 1/8th in volume)!
And countless happily living aboard full time for many years in boats 30 to 40 feet long, travelling throughout the Med and crossing oceans (and perhaps for a fifth or a tenth of these running costs).
But each to their own.

 

[Skipper Felice]

I can’t add anything on the running costs, but that statement did raise a smile when referring to a 50 foot boat!
Many people have circumnavigated the globe in boats less than half that in length (and 1/8th in volume)!
And countless happily living aboard full time for many years in boats 30 to 40 feet long, travelling throughout the Med and crossing oceans (and perhaps for a fifth or a tenth of these running costs).
But each to their own.

Thank you - But I think you mean travelling with a SAILING BOAT ? Operating even a 35ft motoryacht involves some 1000L of fuel each year for some hours of travel and some miles

 

[roa312]

Haul out annual for antifoul , polish , anodes + minor stuff better done on the hard Eg odd seacock etc €3500 .

Can I ask if the €3500 is an all-in cost for all of the above (lift out/in, antifoul, polish etc.)? This is significantly less than the price level in my area, but I guess it should be cheaper in the med.

 

[benjenbav]

Ok - version 2 of my "Pirate-Yachting" planning ... with some clarifications and corrections >

View attachment 186012

As above, how useful is estimating depreciation in understanding opex? Equally why not include food and drink and other living costs?

What does your workbook really tell you other than that if your guesses are more or less right, and nothing unexpected comes up you will have spent a number of euros?

 

[benjenbav]

We operated a 700 Hp 48 ft sports cruiser in Italy .Recently sold up *
Beth ( Loano ) about €9000 , insurance €1000 online craft insure . Sundries repairs / maintenance aggregate to approx €5000 , this includes covers / cushions, engine - lub filters service ( DIY ) etc .
Haul out annual for antifoul , polish , anodes + minor stuff better done on the hard Eg odd seacock etc €3500 .
That’s €17500 . Some yrs the maintenance/ repairs would be less so say it could be €10_12 K .inc the engines every yr of course .
Then there’s fuel now @1.90 ish last time I filled up .
That’s a how longs a piece of string Q .
We sometimes cruised @ D speed , but mostly at 80 % load burning 180-190 L/hr but just under 30 knots so could comfortably in this boat easily cover 100 miles in 3 hrs . Taking between 500-600 L out of the 2200 we set with .
So around €900 for 1/2 day .

I have to say we were at a different stage to you as had previously bombed about the big islands S , talking 19 yrs at it .
So in the later yrs because we figured out the Med sea, sand and sun are the same locally ( it’s takes few yrs for this lesson to hit home ) we did between 50-80 hrs / yr .

I think I I was planning on your itinerary and with time I would get a sail boat .

Most yrs all in I mentally thought it was around €15000- 20000 all in .Never did a spread sheet just knew i didn’t need one .

I choose wisely in the sense I sold it for 50 % more than I paid for it , had it 10 yrs .
A moot point on here the weather never really bothered it , nor our plans to use it .


* Other time commitments.

Surprised by this, Porto. I thought you’d keep that boat for ever. Hope your other time commitments are enjoyable ones.

 

[MapisM]

Recently sold up

Now, that's shocking news!
Where's the "Goodbye Fiammetta" thread with plenty of pics?

Anyway, as BJB already said, I hope your other priorities are similarly enjoyable!

 

[Skipper Felice]

As above, how useful is estimating depreciation in understanding opex? Equally why not include food and drink and other living costs?

What does your workbook really tell you other than that if your guesses are more or less right, and nothing unexpected comes up you will have spent a number of euros?

It's very simple: I am not a Billionaire with an anual income of 1-3 Mio. - I have to find some balance with my live and my family ... I do not count on each 1000 euro... The adventure and hapiness of cruising around the Med. has high priority - the magic moments living for some time on sea can not be valued in a "workbook".
The last three years I did not find people or owners who are really telling you the facts and figures ....