Opencpn charts

[maby]

As a matter of interest, is there an OFFICIAL source for downloading the charts and making payment, or are the charts obsolete and in open circulation?

Don't think they are on sale any longer - the latest CMap charts are encrypted (exactly for this reason) and OpenCPN cannot read them. It will read a variety of formats, but none that are legally available covering much of Europe. You can digitise your paper charts, though even that is of questionable legality.

 

[lustyd]

There, of course, is the big difference between software and everything else - and the central arguement of the FSF. A Mercedes is a tangible item that cannot be copied (at least not without a machine shop and at a cost that is greater than the legal purchase price of one from a dealer). The person who copies a piece of software is not depriving anyone else of the original item. The charge of theft is that they are depriving the copyright holder of the revenue from the sale - but that does rather beg the question of is it still theft if they would not buy a legal copy in the absence of an illegal alternative?

Sounds like an excuse to justify doing wrong to me. I don't actually mind people copying these charts I was just pointing out that the OP wanted a legal copy and was told to just steal them - this attitude does shock me because I remember when people were at least a little worried about breaking the law and now people are actively defending their choice to break the law on forums and telling me to shut up because I point out that it is in fact still illegal.

 

[maby]

Sounds like an excuse to justify doing wrong to me. I don't actually mind people copying these charts I was just pointing out that the OP wanted a legal copy and was told to just steal them - this attitude does shock me because I remember when people were at least a little worried about breaking the law and now people are actively defending their choice to break the law on forums and telling me to shut up because I point out that it is in fact still illegal.

Objectively you are, of course, right. In any case, I'm reasonably confident that there is no legal source for European maps that are compatible with OpenCPN.

As a general observation, the current policies regarding cartography really do push people towards piracy. We're in the process of kitting out the boat and want to have a large plotter at the wheel, a smaller one as a repeater down at the nav table and planning software on the laptop to support passage planning away from the boat. That's at least two copies of some expensive software for each plotter, and a third for the PC if I don't want to be repeatedly removing and reinserting a delicate memory chip into a small and delicate socket. Garmin used to give permission to load a copy of their maps onto a PC for passage planning and they offered significantly discounted licences for second and subsequent plotters. Now, even they have stopped that.

 

[bluerm166]

Charts for Open CPN

Actually there does appear to be a legal source for such charts in the form of Maptech.This recent thread describes it.Sounds like the way I'll be going.


http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300551&highlight=maptech

 

[Robin]

Objectively you are, of course, right. In any case, I'm reasonably confident that there is no legal source for European maps that are compatible with OpenCPN.

As a general observation, the current policies regarding cartography really do push people towards piracy. We're in the process of kitting out the boat and want to have a large plotter at the wheel, a smaller one as a repeater down at the nav table and planning software on the laptop to support passage planning away from the boat. That's at least two copies of some expensive software for each plotter, and a third for the PC if I don't want to be repeatedly removing and reinserting a delicate memory chip into a small and delicate socket. Garmin used to give permission to load a copy of their maps onto a PC for passage planning and they offered significantly discounted licences for second and subsequent plotters. Now, even they have stopped that.

Quite agree. We had two C-Map plotters (three if you count the spare B&W one usually off) and whilst we could use a user card to copy routes and wpts between them as well as to PC Planner on the laptop, to use all together required a separate cartridge for each. Since buying 3 cartridges for each area is not realistic, we would use the main one in the cockpit plotter and the adjacent area one in the chart table one, which would not have all the detail and harbour plans but was OK for passage charting. We also had paper charts covering all the same areas. So WHY do we have to pay three times over for the same data, why can we not transfer between our own plotters?

Now with our new boat and are USA based, Uncle Sam allows us to download all his official USA charts in either raster or vector formats free of charge, you only pay if you want them to print one off for you. We have all the East Coast USA charts loaded in OpenCPN, in both formats and when we need to update all we need do is download the latest charts for the area in full, no need to even mess with changes, as they update all on a weekly basis. OpenCPN even has a way I believe that picks the latest edition if more than one is loaded.

We also have two Garmin plotters one with full USA charts included and one with plug in cartridges, although these cost to update but then they do cover areas outside of the USA like the Bahamas and non-USA Caribbean islands.

We do have CM93s, but for information only, much like we use Google Earth, since we have official charts for everywhere we will go for real and all royalties are paid for those that are not legally free from Uncle Sam.

 

[Heckler]

Actually there does appear to be a legal source for such charts in the form of Maptech.This recent thread describes it.Sounds like the way I'll be going.


http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300551&highlight=maptech

I bought maptech a few years ago, they software wont load again on a new hard drive be3cause the registration stuff is out of date and the company has been taken over by some one else, beware! Im a couple of hundred quid down because of this!
Plus there is a good argument that we as tax payers have paid for the admiralty stuff and should have free access to it, the same as the Yanks do!
Stu

 

[seadago]

Sounds like an excuse to justify doing wrong to me. I don't actually mind people copying these charts I was just pointing out that the OP wanted a legal copy and was told to just steal them - this attitude does shock me because I remember when people were at least a little worried about breaking the law and now people are actively defending their choice to break the law on forums and telling me to shut up because I point out that it is in fact still illegal.

I know it's off topic. However, as someone that makes a living in the IT industry, could not resist...

Lustyd, refreshing approach, but naive. First, don't confuse legal with moral. Not necessarily the same thing. Some would say seldom! Second, do not confuse value with price. In our world, the differencial between the two is what drives profit. Most of us would be perfectly prepared to pay a "fair" price for the charts we need (i.e. a price more adjusted to the value those charts represent to us) and keep on the right side of the law. This, of course, apply to everything else!

 

[lustyd]

Lustyd, refreshing approach, but naive. First, don't confuse legal with moral. QUOTE]

I wasn't confusing the two - it is your morals which determine whether you break a law or not. It's a separate issue of the morals of those selling the stuff.
I completely agree about the problem of cost when having multiple plotters, especially when Navionics for iPhone is £30 and the same charts for a plotter are well over £100. That doesn't change the fact that people are choosing to break a law though, paper charts are still available and work as well as ever.

 

[Boo2]

The person who copies a piece of software is not depriving anyone else of the original item. The charge of theft is that they are depriving the copyright holder of the revenue from the sale - but that does rather beg the question of is it still theft if they would not buy a legal copy in the absence of an illegal alternative?

Speaking as a software engineer, I really do take issue with that : there is no question at all that a software thief is depriving the creator of the software of the revenue from it. How you can have the face to say that "I would not have bought it if I'd had to pay for it so it's not theft if I steal it" I really do not understand ? Couldn't any impecunious alchoholic make the same excuse on being caught stealing whisky from Sainsburys ? When you use a piece of software without paying the vendor you are stealing the money from him exactly the same as if you took it from his wallet.

Software piracy is theft, pure and simple, no arguments. If someone wants to use a piece of commercial software but cannot afford to buy it then what is preventing them from creating their own open-source alternative ? Only the fact that they are shiftless, idle and dishonest like all thieves...

Just my opinion,

Boo2

 

[Robin]

Lustyd, refreshing approach, but naive. First, don't confuse legal with moral. QUOTE]

I wasn't confusing the two - it is your morals which determine whether you break a law or not. It's a separate issue of the morals of those selling the stuff.
I completely agree about the problem of cost when having multiple plotters, especially when Navionics for iPhone is £30 and the same charts for a plotter are well over £100. That doesn't change the fact that people are choosing to break a law though, paper charts are still available and work as well as ever.

C-Map chart cartridges (and I guess the others as well) contain a great number of individual charts. Some of these charts are in multiple cartridges and it is only as you zoom in to the larger scale ones that charts are specific only to that particular cartridge, because what could be considered passage or area charts are common to several in the same general area. So when you buy a cartridge of say 50 charts, you pay 50 chart's worth of royalties to UKHO, but when you buy the next area cartridge you are probably only getting 25 additional charts but are paying another 50 royalty fees which is a nice little earner or rip off depending on your point of view. If you then double all that for a second plotter then C-Map and the UKHO can all take a world cruise on us. I had close on £1,000's worth of C-Map cartridges for our last boat, so all in all I think I've paid my dues a few times over!

I also copied a lot of CDs onto tape in the past to play in my car, I have also copied CDs into MP3s to play in my current car. I will say three hail Marys and hand my self in, sometime in the future, maybe a death bed confession..

 

[seadago]

I wasn't confusing the two - it is your morals which determine whether you break a law or not. It's a separate issue of the morals of those selling the stuff.
I completely agree about the problem of cost when having multiple plotters, especially when Navionics for iPhone is £30 and the same charts for a plotter are well over £100. That doesn't change the fact that people are choosing to break a law though, paper charts are still available and work as well as ever.

precisely... what if it is an unjust law? what would you do then? Copywright protection is a matter of economics. There is a whole current of opinion out there that questions both the fairness and the economics of copywright protection, and how and when it is applied and enforced. Have you logged on to Wikipedia lately?
OK, look it's off topic. I'd be delighted o debate the issue with you in a different thread or a different forum.

 

[maby]

Speaking as a software engineer, I really do take issue with that : there is no question at all that a software thief is depriving the creator of the software of the revenue from it. How you can have the face to say that "I would not have bought it if I'd had to pay for it so it's not theft if I steal it" I really do not understand ? Couldn't any impecunious alchoholic make the same excuse on being caught stealing whisky from Sainsburys ? When you use a piece of software without paying the vendor you are stealing the money from him exactly the same as if you took it from his wallet.

Software piracy is theft, pure and simple, no arguments. If someone wants to use a piece of commercial software but cannot afford to buy it then what is preventing them from creating their own open-source alternative ? Only the fact that they are shiftless, idle and dishonest like all thieves...

Just my opinion,

Boo2

I've been a software engineer - now IT sales - simply a realist...

Software piracy is fundamentally different from other forms of theft that you quote. With electronic distribution, there is no cost in the creation of a specific instance of an application. There may have been a significant investment in its design and devleopment and there in an investment in the provision of support services - though pirates generally are not able to call upon them. The bottle of whisky stolen from Sainsburys cost money to manufacture and distribute. Sainsburys have already paid the wholesaler for it and when someone walks out without paying for it, Sainsburys loses money.

An application downloaded off a torrent - Microsoft Office, for example - only deprives anyone of money if the downloader would otherwise have purchased it - and, in the majority of cases, they would not. An application like Office costs hundreds of pounds and the majority of pirate users would never buy it - if they could not find it on a torrent, they would go for a public domain alternative. Certainly it should not happen, but it does and nothing will stop it. My company has been on the receiving end of piracy - have we lost money as a result? Almost certainly some, but not much, I suspect. Most of the people that rip off our software would not pay for it if they could not find an illegal download - they would simply do without it.

I do have to admit to having been somewhat surprised some years ago when I was still working as a software engineer and was involved in a project which was being led by one of the biggest Indian software development companies. I wanted a copy of that famous XML editor that sounds like James Bond invented it, so I went to the project office to request it. They promptly dug out a CDR install disk and fired up the key generator on the secretary's PC!

 

[Heckler]

Speaking as a software engineer, I really do take issue with that : there is no question at all that a software thief is depriving the creator of the software of the revenue from it. How you can have the face to say that "I would not have bought it if I'd had to pay for it so it's not theft if I steal it" I really do not understand ? Couldn't any impecunious alchoholic make the same excuse on being caught stealing whisky from Sainsburys ? When you use a piece of software without paying the vendor you are stealing the money from him exactly the same as if you took it from his wallet.

Software piracy is theft, pure and simple, no arguments. If someone wants to use a piece of commercial software but cannot afford to buy it then what is preventing them from creating their own open-source alternative ? Only the fact that they are shiftless, idle and dishonest like all thieves...

Just my opinion,

Boo2

BUT and there is a BUT here, as I understand it, the charts are based on Admiralty charts, which we, as taxpayers, have paid for. In America, which does the same, they are free!
Oh and before having a go at me for stating the obvious, check out my original post.
Stu

 

[Playtime]

I bought maptech a few years ago, they software wont load again on a new hard drive be3cause the registration stuff is out of date and the company has been taken over by some one else, beware! Im a couple of hundred quid down because of this!

Stu

Have you actually tried to re-register the charts? If the on-line registration doesn't work any more, give Memory Map a call. They distribute Maptech charts and will do the registration for you. I have re-registered my charts several times over the years, the last time being 2011 when I installed them on a new netbook.

I don't think you have lost your money. If you do succeed, maybe you could report back, as a few other Maptech (Admiralty chart) lovers will need to do this at some point in the future, including me.

Also note, you need proper registration of the Maptech charts on any PC/laptop you want to run them on under OpenCPN.


Update

Ah - I've just read the small print on the Memory Map page and it suggests you ring Maptech Navigation here

001 978 834-9950 (M-F; 10:00am - 4:00pm; U.S. Eastern Time)

support@maptechnavigation.com

 

[affinite]

Give Maptech another try

Stu

Have you actually tried to re-register the charts? If the on-line registration doesn't work any more, give Memory Map a call. They distribute Maptech charts and will do the registration for you. I have re-registered my charts several times over the years, the last time being 2011 when I installed them on a new netbook.

I don't think you have lost your money. If you do succeed, maybe you could report back, as a few other Maptech (Admiralty chart) lovers will need to do this at some point in the future, including me.

Also note, you need proper registration of the Maptech charts on any PC/laptop you want to run them on under OpenCPN.

Update

Ah - I've just read the small print on the Memory Map page and it suggests you ring Maptech Navigation here

001 978 834-9950 (M-F; 10:00am - 4:00pm; U.S. Eastern Time)

support@maptechnavigation.com

Yes I contacted them a few weeks ago because I had to reinstall my Maptech Med BSB charts after reformatting my hard drive. I found them very helpful.
I had previously bought the DVD from them and they had a record of the sale so it may not be so easy if you bought from "Old Maptech" or Memory Map.

Ive now moved over to opencpn for the AIS support but still use my (legitimate) bsb charts

 

[Playtime]

Ive now moved over to opencpn for the AIS support but still use my (legitimate) bsb charts

Me too.

I think all of my charts are from Memory Map. However, since the original source was Maptech and Maptech Navigation has taken over from Maptech, I would hope they (Maptech Navigation) would support re-registration of Memory Map sourced charts.

Let's see if someone (Stu?) can report success doing this.

 

[davidej]

I am absolutely no expert on copyright but, as I understand it, if you have legally acquired some intellectual property in one format, it is legal to copy it into another. thais is why it is OK to load all your Cds onto an IPOD.

If you have bought charts of a particular part of UK waters (even in a chartplotter cartridge) you have paid the Admiralty a copyright fee. Thus I can't see the problem of downloading the same charts for opencn.

IP lawyer required!

 

[haydude]

Marine charts copyright is long expired

Marine charts copyright is long expired and we should all know that regular updates of something that was published over 50 years ago provide no right to claim a renewal of the copyright.

Therefore it is not illegal to copy modern marine charts because they are mere modifications of work that have been in existence for over 50 years.

Beside we should all join the EU campaign against software copyrights and to provide free access to world cartography.

Intellectual Property patents protection is a thing of the past that no longer protects citizens and their work but rather has become a weapon used by large corporate organization to prevent their competitors from providing competitive alternative products. We citizens, consumers pay the consequences through artificially inflated prices for the products we buy.

I challenge anyone who writes an original software from scratch without actually having copied any software code from anyone to prove that their original software has not violated someone else's patent. That has become IMPOSSIBLE, because corporate organizations have copyrights and patents on almost everything, getting away with very loose descriptions in their patents registration.

It is clamorous the fact that British Telecom had a patent on the HYPERTEXTS which we all use on the Internet, through a very loose description that they filed without even knowing what hypertexts were and how they could be applied.

Rather than keep complaining then what should we do?

TALK TO OUR MP AND ASK THEM TO STOP IP PATENTS PROTECTION BECAUSE IT IS A BACKWARD RIGHT PREVENTING INNOVATION AND PROGRESS!

 

[Heckler]

Stu

Have you actually tried to re-register the charts? If the on-line registration doesn't work any more, give Memory Map a call. They distribute Maptech charts and will do the registration for you. I have re-registered my charts several times over the years, the last time being 2011 when I installed them on a new netbook.

I don't think you have lost your money. If you do succeed, maybe you could report back, as a few other Maptech (Admiralty chart) lovers will need to do this at some point in the future, including me.

Also note, you need proper registration of the Maptech charts on any PC/laptop you want to run them on under OpenCPN.


Update

Ah - I've just read the small print on the Memory Map page and it suggests you ring Maptech Navigation here

001 978 834-9950 (M-F; 10:00am - 4:00pm; U.S. Eastern Time)

support@maptechnavigation.com

I spoke to maptech the other day after failing again to register, they have washed their hands of it all!
Stu

 

[elton]

I spoke to maptech the other day after failing again to register, they have washed their hands of it all!
Stu

Sounds like a sensible business strategy. That's what I'd do.