one for the surveyors...

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BlueSkyNick

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.... where did you go to get trained?

Having referred to the YBDSA website, there is a very good course at the IBTC in Lowestoft.

There are also degree courses around in the universities, but obviously long term.

Is there anywhere else worth considering?
 
I have been considering doing a distance learning course with the MPI, the group that owns all the shipping magazines, one sec, i'll find the link!
 
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I didnt go anywhere as such to get trained to be a marine surveyor - ok, I did study naval architecture at college, but that just provides you with a paper qualification re ship design.

I sort of 'fell into it' about 12 years ago, after spending a year working in a boatyard here building fibreglass fishing boats, and deciding that I had breathed in enough fumes and dust already to last a life time (this yard wouldnt have passed any OSHA or H & S regulations).

I have been pottering about in boats all my life, and there was no future in boat design here (I have just had a few design jobs re small commercial power cats), so I teamed up with an elderly marine surveyor who had many years of experience, and literally jumped in feet first at the deep end.
Bought a few books (especially re all the different aspects of ship surveys), tried to ask careful questions, and turned down lots of potential jobs along the way that I wasnt happy with.
And now we do surveys on everything from small speedboats to yachts, cargoes and ships.

I cannot claim to be an expert in any of these fields, but can usually have a reasonable bash at most things. And every day is a potentially new learning experience.
Oh, and as I am not a leagel beagle sort of person, I dont fill up reports with legal jargon and get out clauses, just the basic info needed - yet we seem to survive, perhaps because we just report on the facts and try to be impartial to a fault - not easy on a little island where everybody with a boat knows everybody else.

My bibles for small craft? Surveying small craft by Ian Nicholson has to be top of the list, and any of his other excellent books that you can get hold of. Along with authors like Nigel Calder and Don Casey.

Re doing a course - these folk run correspondence courses in small craft surveying - http://www.mpigroup.co.uk/educationandtraining/YachtsCourses.aspx - useful for getting a 'proper' qualification (a pal in England has recently completed this course, and has now 'hung out her slate' as a marine surveyor) - but certainly in England at least there seems to be a LOT of competition.
We have some competition here, which is good, and we potter along...... we dont earn a lot (I was earning more in England 20 years ago on slightly above average wage then), and there would be howls of protest if we tried to charge the sort of fees that surveyors in England charge....... but it is a nice job, and I wouldnt trade it for the world.
 
Bajansailor, compared with the UK it sounds very informal. How do you deal with insurance surveys? The yacht that needs its five year survey to satisfy the insurance company? Do you have rigorous rules about when the rigging needs to be replaced or do you check it or have it checked by a rigger then report? Do you have professional indemnity insurance? Do insurers employ you and recognise your survey findings? Are you called as expert witnesses in litigation? Do you think that your model would work in Europe or the UK? Or the USA?
 
Manuel said:
Bajansailor, compared with the UK it sounds very informal. How do you deal with insurance surveys? The yacht that needs its five year survey to satisfy the insurance company? Do you have rigorous rules about when the rigging needs to be replaced or do you check it or have it checked by a rigger then report? Do you have professional indemnity insurance? Do insurers employ you and recognise your survey findings? Are you called as expert witnesses in litigation? Do you think that your model would work in Europe or the UK? Or the USA?
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Re Manuel's questions :
We do insurance surveys on yachts occasionally - not often, as there are not many yachts based here.
The time interval for private yachts does generally depend on the outlook of the insurance company concerned.
Commercial fishing boats here require surveys every 2 years for insurance purposes, while speedboats and jet-skis for hire require them every year now.
Re rigging, there does not appear to be any rigorous rule set in stone by local insurance companies - but if we are worried about a rig we call in a rigger who is very good.
All of the local insurance companies here recognise us, and we have carried out insurance surveys occasionally on yachts insured overseas, with no known instances of our reports being rejected.
Re a witness in litigation - only once so far, when I had to go to court to give evidence in a case that had been going on for 15 (!) years - our client won his claim for compensation as a result.
Re if 'our model' would work in Europe or the USA - I doubt it!
 
MoodyNick said:
.... where did you go to get trained?

Having referred to the YBDSA website, there is a very good course at the IBTC in Lowestoft.

There are also degree courses around in the universities, but obviously long term.

Is there anywhere else worth considering?
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Personally I would not use YBDSA .... YDSA ... whatever they choose abbreviation suits occasion .... as the be-all and end-all of knowledge. Self appointed.

I'll leave it there - but just to say that there are many truly Independent Surveyors out there that have chosen to not be involved with them.
 
monkfish24 said:
here you go

http://www.iims.org.uk/
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thanks for that, interesting. I am not sure how effective a correspondence course with zero practical content can be.

Also their claim to be "The only approved career path to becoming a marine surveyor" is misleading, when there other schemes around which are no more or less 'approved'.
 
Problem with this subject is that there are no actual Legal Requirements for the job. various bodies 'assume' they have right to say they are THE body of reference, when in fact they are not.
Don't get me wrong - I am a Marine Surveyor, I own Marine Survey Companies - there are many good surveyors out there belonging to the likes of YBDSA / IIMS etc. But trouble is the vetting to join is insufficient to vett out the trash and I for one objected to the fee setting of one in particular - that would have alienated my client base in UK. It's part of the reason I stopped surveying in UK.

There are good courses - one is on East Coast and highly thought of, but there are also some suspect ones of little practical content.
You have to also be aware that the term Marine Surveyor is misleading, as it usually relates to Commercial Shipping Survey work. The term needed on this thread is Yacht Surveyor - a completely different animal. This does not mean to say that they are less educated or experienced .... it's just that knowledge of ships cargo gear is not same as keels, sails and yacht hulls !
How can I then claim Yacht Surveyor as well as Ships ? Maybe it's the years spent working in boat yards, as well as the training / Ships Construction learnt while in Merch ? So I was lucky enough to have crossed both paths and learnt much from both.

So what I'm leading to is the practical and time spent learning the arts. Courses are fine for technology and new items, but time in a yard with traditional and modern hulls etc. is worth it's weight in gold. Add these together and you end up with a broad knowledge that should stand the Surveyor well.

It is one of the last remaining careers that is not over-burdened with qualifications or regulations. When I use the word Qualifications - I use that word in it's full technical Documentary sense - not the sleazy way some bodies claim "Qualified" when in fact it's self-administrated.

To anyone looking for a surveyor to look over a yacht - one of the best indicators is local reccomendation, from as many different people as possible and NOT all in same yard ! Why not same yard ? Because it's common for Mr. XX to recc'd to Mr. YY a surveyor in that yard .. which then multiplies to that Surveyor being common there. Plus of course yards often have their preferred Surveyor.

For anyone contemplating a career as Yacht Surveyor ? Very few actually make a serious living at it, many are doing it as second line work ...
 
MoodyNick said:
Possibly - not much more than thoughts at present.

You must have had a good long break if you have only just noticed this place has changed!
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Just a few weeks dodging the showers and winds going west and back - frantic work before going meant no time for forums.

Cheers
 
The IBTC course at Lowestoft is excellent and the ongoing support invaluable. You do need appropriate previous industry experience to be accepted onto the course and not everybody passes first time.

Membership of a professional body (IIMS, YDSA, BMSE etc) is not essential but it does give the client confidence that your work is regularly assessed and that you carry the appropriate (and very necessary) Professional Indemnity insurance. All these organisations require you to complete regular Continuous Professional Development training. You can also qualify as a Tonnage Surveyor and as an examiner for the MCA Commercial Codes which are regulated by these bodies. Entry and upgrading is not easy and many Surveyors have several attempts. Many Insurers will only accept reports from members of an Association.
 
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