One engine covered in soot

[jfm]

OK, sounds good. That's quite a big hole! I'd rather have the new part or a patch weld, than bandage a hole that big! If the price is decent buy 2.

Catch is, it may not be a Volvo part. The engine manufacturer's work often stops at the exit flange to the turbocharger, and then you're into Halyard or similar parts, or custom. Good luck anyway

If you want me to buy and bring a MIG welder just ask!

 

[Nick_H]

If you want me to buy and bring a MIG welder just ask!

Ha, nice lateral thinking! I've ordered the part at 1700 euro for an assembly my company would sell for about £20, and I should get it Monday. The other one is quite rusty but passed the brummie screwdriver test so I'll get one fabricated when I get home. I may get 100 made and let petem sell them

 

[petem]

Ha, nice lateral thinking! I've ordered the part at 1700 euro for an assembly my company would sell for about £20, and I should get it Monday. The other one is quite rusty but passed the brummie screwdriver test so I'll get one fabricated when I get home. I may get 100 made and let petem sell them

LOL, nice idea and I'm always happy to try and flog anything there's a market for (got that Targa 34 to fund after all)! On that subject, I'll update my boating business thread in the next week or two.

 

[jfm]

Crikey 1700 nick!
You're licked in by the mistral for a few days anyway. We might see you Wednesday afternoon when we get to porquerolles. We're then crossing to Mahon Thursday am, by which time mistral should have gone

 

[Hurricane]

Crikey 1700 nick!
You're licked in by the mistral for a few days anyway. We might see you Wednesday afternoon when we get to porquerolles. We're then crossing to Mahon Thursday am, by which time mistral should have gone

You are looking a long way out on the forecast.
In the past it has not been accurate over 3 days but this year I've noticed that the GFS forecast has been getting good at the week's forecast.

I'm currently monitoring it as well - we may leave here early if we can find a nice window - need flat seas as well as no wind.

At the moment, your window of leaving porquerolles Thursday morning looks good but there is another mistral forecast for Friday pm through Saturday.
So, maybe ok for Nick on Sunday/Monday.
After that, a massive one building for late Monday (3rd Aug) - huge low over the UK and high over Biscay will make the mistral nasty.
I'm sure would affect anyone in Menorca.
I expect we will wait until after that one but it is not looking good for one of those idyllic "pootles"

All IMO of course.

BTW - a yachtie friend emailed me - he is in Cala Teulera (the anchorage on the right as you enter Mahon).
He says that it is packed full in there at the moment but I expect you will be heading to the Marina and booking into Weys restaurant anyway!!

 

[Nick_H]

Crikey 1700 nick!
You're licked in by the mistral for a few days anyway. We might see you Wednesday afternoon when we get to porquerolles. We're then crossing to Mahon Thursday am, by which time mistral should have gone

Yep, Friday was a brief window to cross and as you say it's windy the next few days. If you don't mind we may cross with you on Thurs, unless you're planning to cruise at >23/24 knots

 

[Nick_H]

On the subject of the elbow itself, it's apparent that it has rusted from the outside in, caused I guess by condensation forming between the elbow and the thermal jacket when the boat is not being used. I assume the jacket is just a safety precaution so I'm wondering if I need to refit it on the stbd engine where the elbow is on the outboard side and away from anyone checking the engines underway. I can't see its a fire risk as there's nothing to fall on it. I suppose I will refit it, as I don't want to risk anyone getting burnt, but it seems a bit daft that the protection causes the deterioration.

I'm also a bit surprised that despite this being a well known issue, (Volvopaul and others refer to it above), and me using VP dealers or VP trained engineers every year for service, none of them has ever taken the ten minutes needed to remove the jackets and check, or even asked me if I've ever had the elbows checked or replaced.

I'm not trying to pass the buck, I've looked at those jackets many times and wondered what exactly was underneath them so I should have checked them myself, but it is also part of the VP installation that I pay people to service and maintain, and you'd surely expect known issues to make their way onto the VP service schedule for the relevant number of hours?

 

[Portofino]

Yup in Ferrari world ,known things that go are regularly inspected /reported on .
Eg ball joints ( BJ s) and belt tensioners and Rocker box gaskets on 360's along with cracked exhaust manifolds on 430 s + much more .
Conversations -@ annual service runs along the lines of " we've noticed a small oil leak ( gasket ) -slight play in a BJ-while it here for XYZ do you want it replacing "
Invariably the ans s yes .
How ever a whole industry of after market improved parts has sprung up .eg Stainless steel BJ,s fit and forget as opposed to OEM -steel which will last 2-3 yrs tops -All info on the net @ various club W sites .
Back to boats yes , you would have thought somebody would make a modified elbow (s) out of a more rubust metal for Volvo or on a forum if it's from condensation outside in then posted it .
Fwiw I had rusty elbows on my KAD 300,s -they where just cast iron type metal -vp part was €350 ish -I found them online for €160!-I sold the boat later that season
Good luck with it all

 

[Portofino]

There's a Marine Buisness idea
You get that guy that JTB used to fab a SS elbow -after mkt improved part
Scale up rhe numbers to enjoy eco of scale -tgt price € 1500 -cos it's SS fit and forget? for aD12
Expand up cover all known VP " iron "elbows .
It's not like its hard to undercut VP pricing is it?

 

[Nick_H]

There's a Marine Buisness idea
You get that guy that JTB used to fab a SS elbow -after mkt improved part
Scale up rhe numbers to enjoy eco of scale -tgt price € 1500 -cos it's SS fit and forget? for aD12
Expand up cover all known VP " iron "elbows .
It's not like its hard to undercut VP pricing is it?

Yep, I briefly thought about that and I have the fairly major advantage of a factory that could make them. The thing is, I guess a lot of that margin goes to the supplying dealer, and even then it hardly seems to be a goldmine ( SSL in Brighton just went into receivership). If cheap copy parts were available online then we'd end up without local VP dealers to fix our boats when they break because they couldn't make it pay, or we'd be paying £150 an hour for labour so would end up no better off.

1700 euro is still a lot though!

 

[Bandit]

Stainless steel exhausts and injection bends are not fit and forget!

The exhausts and injection bends on my boat were cast iron lasted about 12 years before replacement.

Stainless steel exhausts and injection bends last about the same time, where I work we have done two boats this season with SS exhausts and injection bends at about 10 years.

 

[Portofino]

There's SS and SS .meaning different types .I was thinking along the lines of 18-8 Austenitic SS ,used in people -can not and will not corrode .
Also direct sales - on line - no supplier/ agents -
Here's the F car link -they supply better after mkt stuff than F
http://www.hillengineering.co.uk/catalog/index.php

 

[jfm]

@hurricane. Many thanks. Gotta admit I have not studied the weather in that much detail, partly because unless it is f8 it won't stop me going! Yep we have a marina berth booked in Mahon Thursday night and cuitadella Friday. If there is some mistral the s Coast of menorca is a good place to cruise. And yes weys for dinner! By 3rd august I will be in Cabrera and cala d'or area

@Nick: sure if it suits your schedule I'd be delighted to cross together on Thursday. I plan on 23 knots. From porquerolles it is 9.5 hrs or say 10 including parking. Do you want email of the berth lady in Mahon? We are in the new marina ie immediately north of fuel berth. As opposed to stern-to to the road

 

[petem]

There's SS and SS .meaning different types .I was thinking along the lines of 18-8 Austenitic SS ,used in people -can not and will not corrode .
Also direct sales - on line - no supplier/ agents -
Here's the F car link -they supply better after mkt stuff than F
http://www.hillengineering.co.uk/catalog/index.php

I'm in!

How small could a Volvo patten part product range be to make it viable? Apart from exhaust elbows for D6 and D12's, what else could produced at a lower price and higher quality? Sumps? Anything else that tends to be prone to seawater damage?

 

[Nick_H]

@hurricane. Many thanks. Gotta admit I have not studied the weather in that much detail, partly because unless it is f8 it won't stop me going! Yep we have a marina berth booked in Mahon Thursday night and cuitadella Friday. If there is some mistral the s Coast of menorca is a good place to cruise. And yes weys for dinner! By 3rd august I will be in Cabrera and cala d'or area

@Nick: sure if it suits your schedule I'd be delighted to cross together on Thursday. I plan on 23 knots. From porquerolles it is 9.5 hrs or say 10 including parking. Do you want email of the berth lady in Mahon? We are in the new marina ie immediately north of fuel berth. As opposed to stern-to to the road

OK, great. If a weather window opens up before hand then obviously we'll take it, but otherwise we'll plan to cross with you on Thurs. We'd planned to phone marina menorca the day before, but yes, please send me the midwife's email address and I'll try to book in the same place as you.

 

[Nick_H]

Thanks to all for the great advice so far. One more question if I may:

I've had a first attempt at loosening the flange bolts. The turbo end turned easily, which is great as these are on studs set into the turbo housing, but the water injection end are rusted in and show no signs of moving. I've wd40'd them, and will continue doing so until the new part arrives on Monday afternoon, but do they normally go eventually or is it usual to have to grind the heads off. If I have to grind them, it seems it would be better to remove the elbow and water injection unit together and do it on the quay. Is there anything to watch out for disconnecting the water injection unit?

 

[Portofino]

24 hrs or more of regular WD 40 soaking -give it time .

 

[julians]

Proper penetrating oil is loads more effective than wd40. Your local chandlery will have some i would have thought.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

On the subject of the elbow itself, it's apparent that it has rusted from the outside in, caused I guess by condensation forming between the elbow and the thermal jacket when the boat is not being used. I assume the jacket is just a safety precaution so I'm wondering if I need to refit it on the stbd engine where the elbow is on the outboard side and away from anyone checking the engines underway. I can't see its a fire risk as there's nothing to fall on it. I suppose I will refit it, as I don't want to risk anyone getting burnt, but it seems a bit daft that the protection causes the deterioration.

Good question, Nick. I had an incident a few years back with a Targa 48 when some soundproofing fell on to the exhaust from one of the engines during a passage and I didn't notice it until I got back to the marina by which time it was pretty scorched. At the time Fairline used a sponge like soundproofing material which was simply glued to the roof of the engine bay and sections used to fall off regularly. Over the years I think the sponge material absorbed oil and diesel and probably became quite a fire hazard and I wouldn't like to think what might have happened had it fallen on to an unprotected exhaust

There's another consideration too. If you do have a fire in the engine bay under way and even if it has nothing to do with the exhausts, your insurance company might try to say that the unprotected exhaust was a contributory factor

 

[volvopaul]

Y

On the subject of the elbow itself, it's apparent that it has rusted from the outside in, caused I guess by condensation forming between the elbow and the thermal jacket when the boat is not being used. I assume the jacket is just a safety precaution so I'm wondering if I need to refit it on the stbd engine where the elbow is on the outboard side and away from anyone checking the engines underway. I can't see its a fire risk as there's nothing to fall on it. I suppose I will refit it, as I don't want to risk anyone getting burnt, but it seems a bit daft that the protection causes the deterioration.

I'm also a bit surprised that despite this being a well known issue, (Volvopaul and others refer to it above), and me using VP dealers or VP trained engineers every year for service, none of them has ever taken the ten minutes needed to remove the jackets and check, or even asked me if I've ever had the elbows checked or replaced.

I'm not trying to pass the buck, I've looked at those jackets many times and wondered what exactly was underneath them so I should have checked them myself, but it is also part of the VP installation that I pay people to service and maintain, and you'd surely expect known issues to make their way onto the VP service schedule for the relevant number of hours?

Every D12 I go has the jacket peeled back including yours two years ago when I was over there , like any job there is money to be made , I'd say your may have failed slightly premature in years so I'd be getting the other side done before its fails , it also costs you new air filters and hours of cleaning if your proud if your engine room . I'd get Jenny in there with her marigolds on if she is still about .