On encountering a racing fleet?

[Rigger Mortice]

I don't want to spoil anyone's day, but it's not easy to anticipate the route of a race if you're not involved.

+1 Exactly.
I also try to keep out of the way but not if it means a big diversion. All too often though I have no idea where they will be going.

 

[Moonshining]

My experence in the Solent is yes, they will, to the letter and often to the inch!

Except sunsail races where some boats are great and some are arrogant. Nothing against sunsail but they do have some rather self centred clients.

There'll always be some eejit in any fleet who can't drive the thing and so starts yelling at everyone else, but in the Sunsail races that I've been in, the skippers have abided by the colregs and taken the hit if they have to bear away or whatever because there's another non-racing boat in the way. I did start a thread last year (which some people took awfully seriously) about a small boat with spinnaker set who ploughed through a Sunsail fleet just after he start of a race. It caused a fair amount of activity among the boats who had to get around him, but everyone seemed to take it as just part of the natural hazards of sailing in crowded waters like the solent.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

I think it also depends on what sort of vessel you are in EG

or a

 

[richardsn9]

On Saturday, some poor boat was hit by one of the Sunsail race fleet off Portsmouth, who then failed to stop or answer VHF calls. The coastguard chased it up with Sunsail; did not hear the outcome, but certainly took care to stay well away from them wherever possible.....

 

[[70521]]

I tend to turn round and go somewhere else.

 

[Romeo]

Smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave.

 

[prv]

I tend to turn round and go somewhere else.

Can be tricky in the central Solent on a summer Saturday - there isn't any "somewhere else"

Pete

 

[BlueSkyNick]

On Saturday, some poor boat was hit by one of the Sunsail race fleet off Portsmouth, who then failed to stop or answer VHF calls. The coastguard chased it up with Sunsail; did not hear the outcome, but certainly took care to stay well away from them wherever possible.....

I heard something about that too....... and also that it wasnt clear who hit who, why, or how.

 

[Resolution]

I think it also depends on what sort of vessel you are in EG

or a

Come on Mr Pirate, can't you photoshop those two together to give us a really clear demonstration of Rule 18 (a) (iv)?

 

[Pye_End]

What is the correct etiquette when crossing a fleet of racing yachts all on opposing courses?

Cut in front and force them to perhaps change course?
Go behind and spoil their wind?
Ignore them and cut across at right angles as if it were a TSZ?
Hoist a burgee and join in?

Depends how polite/grumpy they are.

 

[crewman]

On Saturday, some poor boat was hit by one of the Sunsail race fleet off Portsmouth, who then failed to stop or answer VHF calls. The coastguard chased it up with Sunsail; did not hear the outcome, but certainly took care to stay well away from them wherever possible.....

Sunsail race boats have a £3000 insurance excess which they insist the skipper is liable for. They are also very strict about chasing their charterers for any damage. I know because last year I lost one of their spinnakers. £2500 was the quote.

 

[prv]

Sunsail race boats have a £3000 insurance excess which they insist the skipper is liable for. They are also very strict about chasing their charterers for any damage. I know because last year I lost one of their spinnakers. £2500 was the quote.

I guess that's for their racing fleet in the UK? I know when we used to go on their flotillas and beach clubs in the Med, any damage was "all-inclusive".

Good thing really, since my mum managed to sink one of their catamarans

(Dinghy catamaran, not one of the mobile apartment type ones. But it was stove in pretty good, dunno if it was fixable.)

Pete

 

[epervier]

Agree entirely, though just to clarify, Colregs apply between yachts who are racing and anything that isn't. RRS apply between yachts who are racing, even if they are not racing in the same race.

I think, to be honest, that it's often a politeness thing. You wouldn't obstuct runners in a local fun run in a park, so why some people seem to take a peverse delight in charging through start lines in open water just because they can simply baffles me.

Because a local fun run is, in the main, once a year charity event, in the Solent between April and November it's every weekend, with a limited amount of space that has to be shared with other water users, it's not just for the racing sailors exclusive use only.

My experience has been that once the red mist descends in the line of sight of a racing skipper, the IRPCS tend to get lost in that same mist.

 

[john_morris_uk]

In my experience no. Regardless of their obligations the majority seem to apply RRS to non-racing boats. Mainly this means completely disregarding most of rule 8. Veering away at the last moment to duck a metre under your stern is *not* obeying the colregs and relies on the non-racer not deciding it's time for 17a(ii) to apply and make their own (possibly incompatible) manoeuvre.

It's simple common sense to stay away from racers.

The latter is probably true - but not always easy.

The former is (IMHO) a little harsh. Missing you by a metre is a HUGE gap for some racing boats. I suspect that many serious racers get uncomfortably close to cruising boats they are avoiding as far as the cruising boat is concerned.

The trouble us that you can't tell who is the skilled serious racing boat and who is the less than skilled racing boat who might just misjudge things...

 

[laika]

The former is (IMHO) a little harsh. Missing you by a metre is a HUGE gap for some racing boats..

Huge when the RRS are in force. But to return to part of my post you quoted, what part of 8a-e is being observed by altering course to dip under my stern 6 seconds before impact? And at what point (ie time to impact) should the sensible cruiser with a racing boat bearing down on them decide it's a 17a(ii) moment? EDIT: that's actually a question, not a stroppy response Well ok the first part is rhetorical, but still meant to be a discussion point rather than a rude retort..

Obviously you *try* not to get into that situation with those guys in the first place, but occasionally (because you're stand on to several vessels and taking early avoiding action would put you into the path of something else) it happens

 

[LONG_KEELER]

In my experience no. Regardless of their obligations the majority seem to apply RRS to non-racing boats. Mainly this means completely disregarding most of rule 8. Veering away at the last moment to duck a metre under your stern is *not* obeying the colregs and relies on the non-racer not deciding it's time for 17a(ii) to apply and make their own (possibly incompatible) manoeuvre.

It's simple common sense to stay away from racers. In the solent this sometimes just isn't possible: it's just a case of trying to work out what marks each fleet is likely to be heading for and trying to pick a course to avoid the bulk of them. I think there's actually a lot to be said for staying on port: you know where you stand.

Excellent response. I would guess that many would agree with you.

Anyway, even if you hate racing , if anybody goes past you in a similar boat it's game on . But try not to let the wife know.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Come on Mr Pirate, can't you photoshop those two together to give us a really clear demonstration of Rule 18 (a) (iv)?

This is a better demonstration

 

[[70521]]

This is a better demonstration

The title "Yacht hit by tanker off Cowes, Isle of Wright", does make me chuckle. When is the court case again?

 

[tokoloshe]

tack away

but if escape is impossible

put yourself in irons

let all sails fly

then let them avoid you

+1 but I guess you would spend a lot of time "going nowhere fast" in locations like the Solent.!

 

[DJE]

I agree, it's not always obvious. However sometimes it is. I'm always amazed when I'm milling about in a prestart with 50+ boats involved and come across a non competitor.

Not just starting areas. A couple of weeks ago I was sailing downwind with a big fleet crossing my bow on port tack. Just picked a gap that I thought I could get through when they all started tacking onto starboard and pointing at me. It seems I was sailing down the lay line to their windward mark.