Older Westerly OceanLord

[dom]

The beam is carried right aft, the undersides are flatter, waterline beam increased. Topsides rise steeply with increased freeboard, chines make a comeback . Sterns are cut with little overhang, drop down platforms replace sugar scoops. Forward the lines are drawn out to a bluff, plumb bow.
The rough characteristics of a high volume modern hull form.

Indeed, and roughly the profile of modern high-speed racers and fast cruisers which have changed the game for long distance sailing to something the old plodders could never dream of. For these boats are faster on every point of sail and wind condition.

Progress is rarely a bad thing, especially when coupled with free market dynamics.

 

[FlyingGoose]

Indeed, and roughly the profile of modern high-speed racers and fast cruisers which have changed the game for long distance sailing to something the old plodders could never dream of. For these boats are faster on every point of sail and wind condition.

Progress is rarely a bad thing, especially when coupled with free market dynamics.

Progrss can sometimes be put down to cost saving as well, using materials that do not last like the older boats , but only time will tell always a two sided argument that will go around for many years

 

[Bobc]

God, you lot.....

The Westerley is a perfectly adequate boat. It was designed to do a job, and it will do that job.

The things to consider (as mentioned above) are the costs of re-fits and things like osmosis. I have just re-powered my boat and had the standing rigging replaced, and am now £15k lighter in the wallet for it.

Regading osmosis and lay-ups, most of the boats made pre-2000 will have been made using orthophalic polyester resins, and the majority of cloth used was chop-strand (and lots of it) as the thought was "thicker is better". Ortho resins have more of a tendency to allow water through, and the thick layup meant that there is a high chance of solvent entrapment in the layup, which is what causes osmosis.

Later hulls tend to be made from isophalic vinylester resins (which are more resistant to water penetration) and woven rovings, which are less prone to solvent entrapment, as you use less resin. Also modern boats are typically stronger for their weight, as the cloth layup is planned and positioned to give the highest strength/weight ratio (don't forget that resin costs money, so if they can use less, the boat costs less to build).

I went to the Bavaria factory a couple of years ago, and at each laminating station, the guy had a set of pre-cut and numbered sheets of woven rovings, and a drawing showing where each one went and which way round. It may still be "blokes will rollers" but it is very different from the old days of "gob it in".

My advice would be to keep an open mind and look around at lots of different options around your price range to see what you like. Don't make a pre-judgement based on myth and here-say.

 

[FlyingGoose]

God, you lot.....

The Westerley is a perfectly adequate boat. It was designed to do a job, and it will do that job.

The things to consider (as mentioned above) are the costs of re-fits and things like osmosis. I have just re-powered my boat and had the standing rigging replaced, and am now £15k lighter in the wallet for it.

Regading osmosis and lay-ups, most of the boats made pre-2000 will have been made using orthophalic polyester resins, and the majority of cloth used was chop-strand (and lots of it) as the thought was "thicker is better". Ortho resins have more of a tendency to allow water through, and the thick layup meant that there is a high chance of solvent entrapment in the layup, which is what causes osmosis.

Later hulls tend to be made from isophalic vinylester resins (which are more resistant to water penetration) and woven rovings, which are less prone to solvent entrapment, as you use less resin. Also modern boats are typically stronger for their weight, as the cloth layup is planned and positioned to give the highest strength/weight ratio (don't forget that resin costs money, so if they can use less, the boat costs less to build).

I went to the Bavaria factory a couple of years ago, and at each laminating station, the guy had a set of pre-cut and numbered sheets of woven rovings, and a drawing showing where each one went and which way round. It may still be "blokes will rollers" but it is very different from the old days of "gob it in".

My advice would be to keep an open mind and look around at lots of different options around your price range to see what you like. Don't make a pre-judgement based on myth and here-say.

But the argument is flawed 43 year old boat no osmosis , but plenty of so called modern boats with osmosis , plent of older boats as well so were is this amazing knowledge from , it is picked from magazines , so called experts and these forums , give me the stats of old versus new (define new from the 1990s onwards , before after there is a circluar argument, it is like saying an older car is better that these modern ones but old cars and modern cars break down.
You will find it is not the age of the boat of how it was manufactured but the company that built such boats production line and there quality control.
out of every manufactured piece one will be substandard and some unlucky person will get that item

 

[Bobc]

But the argument is flawed 43 year old boat no osmosis , but plenty of so called modern boats with osmosis , plent of older boats as well so were is this amazing knowledge from , it is picked from magazines , so called experts and these forums , give me the stats of old versus new (define new from the 1990s onwards , before after there is a circluar argument, it is like saying an older car is better that these modern ones but old cars and modern cars break down.
You will find it is not the age of the boat of how it was manufactured but the company that built such boats production line and there quality control.
out of every manufactured piece one will be substandard and some unlucky person will get that item

I'm not suggesting that ALL pre-2000 boats will have osmosis. It all depends on exactly what resin was used (for instance Beneteau had a bad batch of resin in 1985 which caused osmisis in boats less then 10 years old). It also depends where the boat is kept (water temperature and salinity), and if it is in the water permanently or not.

All I'm stating is that modern resins are less prone to it. That is all.

For some anecdotal proof, we'll take my boat, a 2003 Bavaria.

No osmosis in the hull at all (vinylester resin). However, I have had blisters on the rudder from when the boat was about 5 years old (rudder not made by Bavaria, but made by Jeffa using polyester resin). If the material makes no difference, why has this happened?

 

[Concerto]

You will find it is not the age of the boat of how it was manufactured but the company that built such boats production line and there quality control.

I can remember visiting the Kingfisher factory several times in 1964 as my parents were buying a Kingfisher 30, when I was 10 years old. It all looked wonderful to me, watching the glassfibre layup using a strand chopping spraygun to apply it. There was a Kinfisher 20 hull and deck abandoned outside as it had failed quality control. The way the quality was checked was by weighing the hull and if it was too light, it was rejected. This hull and deck was bought by 4 of the workers and completed by them in their own time. I expect it is still sailing today, but without a Kingfisher badge.

I may be old fashioned in my opinion, but I do not think the modern 2 part egg box construction will prove to be condusive for a boat to have a long life. Bulkheads that drop into slots, along with furniture units, and held in place by the deck is not as secure as a fully bonded ribs and bonded bulkheads of older glassfibre boats.

Yacht design is always changing due to improvements in materials, succesful racing hull shapes, etc. However not all changes are an improvement in the way a yacht sails. Many modern AWB's have stumpy rigs as "gentlemen" never beat and just motor into wind. When these yachts are on charter, they frequently do more hours motoring than sailing. This is partly due to the inexperience of most of those onboard and partly by trying to keep to a schedule.

From what the OP has responded to to most replies, I think he wants an older style yacht and the Oceanlord should suit his needs admirably.

 

[Bobc]

It all looked wonderful to me, watching the glassfibre layup using a strand chopping spraygun to apply it.

The worst and most strucurally un-sound way to layup a hull, and almost certain to have un-cured resin still in it.

The way the quality was checked was by weighing the hull and if it was too light, it was rejected.

That's your idea of quality control is it? Oh dear.

I may be old fashioned in my opinion, but I do not think the modern 2 part egg box construction will prove to be condusive for a boat to have a long life. Bulkheads that drop into slots, along with furniture units, and held in place
by the deck is not as secure as a fully bonded ribs and bonded bulkheads of older glassfibre boats.

You clearly have listened to too much propoganda regarding how modern boats are built. Everything is bonded on my Bavaria. It is dropped into slots, but it is then bonded there.

Many modern AWB's have stumpy rigs as "gentlemen" never beat and just motor into wind.

Suggest one that has, I dare you...

 

[pvb]

I may be old fashioned in my opinion, but I do not think the modern 2 part egg box construction will prove to be condusive for a boat to have a long life. Bulkheads that drop into slots, along with furniture units, and held in place by the deck is not as secure as a fully bonded ribs and bonded bulkheads of older glassfibre boats.

Bavaria yachts have all bulkheads laminated to the hull. Check this factory video - you might learn something.

 

[Tinto]

My main criteria are

Large aft cabin with great headroom. So that means a centre cockpit boat and only one cabin aft.

Steady boat that’s easy to sail single handed. No Mrs Tinto to be worrying about.

Something that lends itself to user maintenance since I intend to pack in work and live off summer holiday AirBnB rental income whilst living aboard in the summer months. Winter, back to work as a freelancer, boat out the water for larger maintenance jobs.

Could be tempted away from centre cockpit design by an Etap 38, for comfort, sentimental and build quality reasons

 

[dom]

Bavaria yachts have all bulkheads laminated to the hull. Check this factory video - you might learn something.

Bavaria, hmm, I'm thinking Ingolstadt 1748 when Professor Adam Weishaupt founded the Illuminati.

First crack in an otherwise flawless argument? Not that I can see what the Illuminati have against MABs

 

[PaulRainbow]

My main criteria are

Large aft cabin with great headroom. So that means a centre cockpit boat and only one cabin aft.

Steady boat that’s easy to sail single handed. No Mrs Tinto to be worrying about.

Something that lends itself to user maintenance since I intend to pack in work and live off summer holiday AirBnB rental income whilst living aboard in the summer months. Winter, back to work as a freelancer, boat out the water for larger maintenance jobs.

Could be tempted away from centre cockpit design by an Etap 38, for comfort, sentimental and build quality reasons

Possible alternatives to the Westerly, which fit the above criteria and budget ;

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/category/type/Moody/376

A bit more haggling, perhaps stretch the budget a touch, the 2003 model at the top of the page looks fantastic boat (bit more money though) ;

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/category/type/Moody/38+CC

 

[dom]

My main criteria are

Large aft cabin with great headroom. So that means a centre cockpit boat and only one cabin aft.

Steady boat that’s easy to sail single handed. No Mrs Tinto to be worrying about.

Something that lends itself to user maintenance since I intend to pack in work and live off summer holiday AirBnB rental income whilst living aboard in the summer months. Winter, back to work as a freelancer, boat out the water for larger maintenance jobs.

Could be tempted away from centre cockpit design by an Etap 38, for comfort, sentimental and build quality reasons

Some friends of mine own classic yachts albeit older wooden affairs dating from the 1930s. I almost bought a half share in one.

Aside from that, I can tell you is that restoring old 40-50' boats (1970-1990s included) can become horribly expensive to the point of easily dropping £100K+ for a full refurb.

Also worth mentioning that most people own classic yachts to race, play, and just have fun with them. Many are truly beautiful things and I love sailing the odd classic event.

If, however, you have no emotional skin in the game, be aware that modern AWBs can be found which will be much much better at sailing in all wind and sea conditions. By no means all, but many, bearing in mind that MABs weren't uniformly great either.

My advice would be to buy a well sorted boat, or failing that budget realistically and carefully. It is so easy to overestimate what one can achieve during a few warm weekends.

 

[Tinto]

Possible alternatives to the Westerly, which fit the above criteria and budget ;

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/category/type/Moody/376

A bit more haggling, perhaps stretch the budget a touch, the 2003 model at the top of the page looks fantastic boat (bit more money though) ;

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/category/type/Moody/38+CC

A friend if mine who now has a 15m X yacht started with a CC Moody. He describes the Moody as being a bit of a caravan. I expect the Westerly OceanLord is much the same. Now sailing an X with carbon fibre/Kevlar sails, I expect most boats are caravans to him.

 

[FlyingGoose]

A friend if mine who now has a 15m X yacht started with a CC Moody. He describes the Moody as being a bit of a caravan. I expect the Westerly OceanLord is much the same. Now sailing an X with carbon fibre/Kevlar sails, I expect most boats are caravans to him.

All true a boat should truly fit the person wanting to buy it and get as much plus points that you are after , there will never be a boat within your budget givivng you everything and compromise is always a juggle.
Some like to go fast and as close to the wind , others will not put their sails up if it starts to blow , some never leave the Dock
Choose a boat that will suit you and your needs everything discussed on this thread will be a good boat but you will compromise in one area to another on another boat , older boats do not mean extra money , as the owners may have spnet a lifetime loving their old boat , you might get a newish AWB which has been chartered and run ragged and needs some work
Boats are money pits and no matter how big the list is be assured that it never goes down no matter what your boat
The OceanLord is a lovley boat , but so is a Bavaria and a Jeanu. a good survey and a happy SWMBO will make a happy sailor

 

[Rafiki]

Possible alternatives to the Westerly, which fit the above criteria and budget ;

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/category/type/Moody/376

A bit more haggling, perhaps stretch the budget a touch, the 2003 model at the top of the page looks fantastic boat (bit more money though) ;

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/category/type/Moody/38+CC

When haggling for the Moody 376, you could refer to the one sold by Michael Schmidt brokers in Hamble 3 years ago for around £23k ( all the brokers contribute to a 'closed' database of prices achieved). The guy who bought it motored it away - yes the engine was OK ! and was intending to use it for weekday accomodation in Poole where he worked and to save on B&B costs as his home was in South Wales I recall. That particular Moody had been for sale for nearly two years by an elderly owner who just wanted rid of it and to put a stop to his outgoings. I spoke to the purchaser and the independent engineer who had maintained it for the owner. If I had realised how little I could have got it for I would have bought it myself!

 

[Frank Holden]

My main criteria are

Large aft cabin with great headroom. So that means a centre cockpit boat and only one cabin aft.

Steady boat that’s easy to sail single handed. No Mrs Tinto to be worrying about.

Something that lends itself to user maintenance since I intend to pack in work and live off summer holiday AirBnB rental income whilst living aboard in the summer months. Winter, back to work as a freelancer, boat out the water for larger maintenance jobs.

Could be tempted away from centre cockpit design by an Etap 38, for comfort, sentimental and build quality reasons

The Oceanlord came into being as the Sealord couldn't compete with the Corsair on price.... so they stretched it 2 feet.....
I believe some of the extra went into the aft cabin. Does it have great headroom ? Dunno... guess that depends on how tall you are....
There are a couple on the market in the UK... why not have a look at one of them?
Be aware the aft cabin layout seems to vary quite a lot...

 

[Tinto]

When haggling for the Moody 376, you could refer to the one sold by Michael Schmidt brokers in Hamble 3 years ago for around £23k ( all the brokers contribute to a 'closed' database of prices achieved). The guy who bought it motored it away - yes the engine was OK ! and was intending to use it for weekday accomodation in Poole where he worked and to save on B&B costs as his home was in South Wales I recall. That particular Moody had been for sale for nearly two years by an elderly owner who just wanted rid of it and to put a stop to his outgoings. I spoke to the purchaser and the independent engineer who had maintained it for the owner. If I had realised how little I could have got it for I would have bought it myself!

I had a look at a Seahawk and OceanLord last weekend. The broker was very clear about what their true value was and it was markedly different from the asking price. He made reference to recent sales prices

The Moody is also a good option, as is the SeaLord, Ocean Ranger and Ocean Master, but both are rarer than the OceanLord.

The Moody in Largs has a nice aft cabin layout

 

[Frank Holden]

I had a look at a Seahawk and OceanLord last weekend. The broker was very clear about what their true value was and it was markedly different from the asking price. He made reference to recent sales prices
...........

And the difference was?????
When I bought mine 25 years ago my first and last offer was 80% of the asking price..... it was accepted after the broker asked them if they wanted to wait another 8 months for someone else to make an offer...

 

[Tinto]

And the difference was?????
When I bought mine 25 years ago my first and last offer was 80% of the asking price..... it was accepted after the broker asked them if they wanted to wait another 8 months for someone else to make an offer...

I am being discrete out of respect for the broker. Wouldn’t take a genius to work out who it was and I wouldn’t want him having upset vendors.

Having said that, they both needed a bit of cosmetic work and even at those prices I thought they were a bit high.

 

[Vegable]

From what you have mentioned about your requirements as an owner of an Oceanranger I'd suggest that it will be too small for you. My Oceanranger was built with the Sealord interior and although it can sleep 8 I wouldn't want to be onboard with 8 people milling about. Ideally it will suit 4 people, and I think 6 people as live aboards will be too cramped. The Oceanranger is really a 36' Corsair with a sugar scoop stern so there is no extra space inside.
Have a look at the Westerly Wiki which will show you the different boats and sizes and how many of each model were made. etc.,etc.
I based Conspiracy in Arisaig and have sailed all over the Hebrides. St Kilda several times, the Faeroes once and once to the arctic circle above Iceland. She is a lovely boat, beautifully finished inside. Sails well, never frightened me, or given me cause for concern. We bought her in Brighton and sailed her up to Pwllheli, where I live, over bonfire night weekend and have been up and down the Irish Sea between Pwllheli and Arisaig about 4 times (return journeys that is). 2 weeks ago I "sailed" her down from Arisaig to Abersoch by myself very easily - found it a bit lonely and boring. I say "sailed" because out of 53 hours under way, 49 of them were under power!
So in conclusion, based on my experiences, one of the larger Westerlys will suit you down to the ground for the sailing area you're looking at. Make sure the boat you choose has a good engine and has been loved like mine is. I've had to replace the batteries, both loo pumps, standing rigging, and anchor windlass and that's all in the 9 years I've had her, plus of course the usual consumables like filters, anodes, antifoul etc., etc. (I've also treated her with lots of presents but we won't mention those!)
Happy hunting because this is an exciting time. If you want to know more PM me and we can chat on the phone.
Mike