Old boats and moisture readings.

[Tranona]

Can you use the survey to negotiate a discount in the sale price in the region of the amount of money it would cost to undertake the surveyors recommendation. Your rationale would be that if the vendor declines then he is likely to encounter the same issues with any other prospective sale and that you will either have this additional expense or incur a similar reduction from a purchaser later down the line in the event you don't undertake the work. The vendor may just want to take a bit of a hit just to move it on and be free of the emotional distress selling a boat can cause.

Similarly how intent are you on buying this vessel...could be worth taking a few deep breaths to evaluate the balance between you rational mind and emotional mind and go from there.

Good luck Bw

The OP is the seller, not the buyer so is looking for information as to the importance of the findings to counter the expected request for a reduction.

It is a real problem when the buyer's surveyor has overstated the extent of the "problem" without actually bothering to investigate what has actually been done to the boat to prevent osmosis. He thinks he is doing his client a favour whereas it will probably put the buyer off the opportunity to buy a good boat. As others have said higher spot moisture readings are not an indication of osmosis on their own, and such extreme treatment as suggested is no longer considered appropriate treatment, partly because of cost and partly because it is not always successful.

 

[skyflyer]

Can you use the survey to negotiate a discount in the sale price in the region of the amount of money it would cost to undertake the surveyors recommendation. Your rationale would be that if the vendor declines then he is likely to encounter the same issues with any other prospective sale and that you will either have this additional expense or incur a similar reduction from a purchaser later down the line in the event you don't undertake the work. The vendor may just want to take a bit of a hit just to move it on and be free of the emotional distress selling a boat can cause.

Similarly how intent are you on buying this vessel...could be worth taking a few deep breaths to evaluate the balance between you rational mind and emotional mind and go from there.

Good luck Bw

Except I’m the vendor ?. but yes the whole point of my enquiry is that it’s easy to take the view ” ABC is defective, it will cost £XYZ to fix, so I want £XYZ off the purchase price”, without asking the questions “What happens if I don’t fix ABC, if I do fix it, will it just recur elsewhere, and will any boat of this age, size and price also have ABC, in other words can I get a better boat for the same cost?”

 

[Kukri]

Except I’m the vendor ?. but yes the whole point of my enquiry is that it’s easy to take the view ” ABC is defective, it will cost £XYZ to fix, so I want £XYZ off the purchase price”, without asking the questions “What happens if I don’t fix ABC, if I do fix it, will it just recur elsewhere, and will any boat of this age, size and price also have ABC, in other words can I get a better boat for the same cost?”

As I more or less said in posts 2 and 20 above, you have already discounted the future need for treatment in the price and you should not offer any further discount.

 

[Refueler]

Except I’m the vendor ?. but yes the whole point of my enquiry is that it’s easy to take the view ” ABC is defective, it will cost £XYZ to fix, so I want £XYZ off the purchase price”, without asking the questions “What happens if I don’t fix ABC, if I do fix it, will it just recur elsewhere, and will any boat of this age, size and price also have ABC, in other words can I get a better boat for the same cost?”

That was sensible post ....

I would expect any buyer to try use the survey findings to reduce price of boat. Its all part of the 'haggle'. Even a boat without significant items of note in a survey - buyers will try to get reduced price.

The question is - has the Seller done his homework - or just trusting the Broker on pricing ? Most Brokers I have seen - try it on with high price - to have seller agree sole broker status.
Seller should look carefully at market and not just what Online Adverts say for price ... try to gauge real price paid for the same boat ... marry what is known as defects and arrive at a sensible figure that still allows a margin of 'give'. Buyer then thinks they've struck a good deal ... Seller gets what he's appraised boat is really worth.

I have not seen many sellers agree to cover 100% cost of work noted by Buyers survey .... usually there's been a compromise. And I am well aware that quite a number of Buyers did not actually carry out the work. Paid agreed price ,,, sailed away.

 

[srm]

When I sold my last boat the broker suggested a price in the range that similar boats were asking, expecting offers to come in at 20% below asking price.

The final sale price ( just over a year later) finished up at below that, but it was a slow buyer's market at the time. I had to accept a price drop for blisters on the rudder and cleaning out saturated foam (despite having declared it in the details) and replacing rigging, which was fairly old when I bought the boat. After agreeing the final price that included a discount for age of rigging the buyer came back to the broker trying to argue further about the rigging. I pointed out that he had agreed a price based on the age of the rigging.

However, I had driven a similar hard bargain for the boat's replacement so shrugged and accepted it, being pleased to see it go to a new owner as storage and insurance was a continuing expense.

 

[Restoration man]

The high moisture levels could just be standing water in the bilge’s, also if your not planning on selling your boat Until next year I would keep the boat on the hard for the winter make sure every last drop water is out of the bilges and set up big fan in the doorway get a piece wood cut a hole in it so all the air comes through the fan , put it in the doorway and put it on a timer so it’s running during the day , have the fan so it’s drawing air out of the cabin ,my boat has been kept in the water for years and had very high moisture content, first 6 months the moisture level was dropping very slowly, or not at all ,since having the fan running it has been dropping a hell of lot faster month on month , in fact in places now it’s more than low enough to put a barrier coat on , on some of the hull it was showing 26 on the tramex that’s well into the red and alarm going off now showing 9 , apparently they can be barrier coated 14 or below

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I bought an old boat and the seller had advertised it as having higher moisture readings. Also provided a history of earlier work (not gel coat pealing) and winters ashore. The broker was clear that the seller would not entertain any discussion on price discounts as a result of elevated moisture reasons. This was notified to me before survey. In this situation, the seller believed that the price reflected that information. Being an odd boat, there were other, far more relevant issues. I guess if a seller is upfront and the price is reasonable, not withstanding anything else, a buyer may have less chance of securing a discount.

The end result is that I learned a lot about moisture readings in old GRP hulls. I believe in the majority of cases, where there is no external visible signs of osmosis, they can be ignored with a degree of confidence.

 

[DoubleEnder]

I’m very cynical about surveyors’ reports and even perhaps their level of knowledge, and diligence. I sold my boat last year, a wooden vessel in really good condition. The survey, by a well known specialist, picked up some areas of varnish that needed renewing. That was it. But he then went on to recommend that ‘ rig be disassembled’. Really? The rig had been out, undressed and inspected and given a couple of fresh coats in one of the best specialist yards ONE MONTH before the survey. Oh, and he also commented on the electric windlass. There is no electric windlass and never has been.

I suspect cut and paste

 

[ducked]

I have a loan of a Proster MT-28 moisture meter and thought I might try it when examining some glassfibre sail boats for possible purchase.

It is not sold for that purpose and I suppose will require quite a lot of testing to establish usefulness or otherwise, but I wonder which of the "mode" settings provided would be likely to provide the best starting point

Wall, Masonry, Softwood or Hardwood?

Or perhaps it makes no difference?

 

[Refueler]

Depending on the level of moisture - you may find it shows zero on all .. or maxes out on some !!

The main factor to keep in mind ... Old Boats ... moisture is most likely high anyway ..

My SR25 will throw my Tramex of the scale and then I use my Protimeter to get a number ...

My 38CR will be happy on the Tramex ... and my Protimeter hardly registers anything.

What I'm indicating is that not to read too much into whatever you get .. if no serious blistering - enjoy whatever boat.