Oil level rising on Caterpillar 3406E

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Boatbore

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I am always enormously grateful for the wisdom and experience available on this site and wondered if anyone had any good ideas re the following.

I have recently purchased a Ferretti 57, with Caterpillar 3406E, 812hp six cylinder engines. The boat is in very good condition cosmetically which suggests she is well looked after, and everything (so far) works well. The engines run smoothly and without smoke, but i have recently noticed that the oil levels rose on the dipstick after a long trip. Normally, I would think this is a result of a leaky injector depositing diesel into the engine sump, but it seems to be happening on BOTH engines, which i would think is unlikely or unusual. I gave it the benefit of the doubt the first time (I suspected operator incompetence with the dipstick) but it has happened again so its not just me. I took a little oil out and added fresh to preserve the oil consistency but need to find a proper solution.

I have sent oil samples to be analysed and should hear back in the next few days, so if there is diesel in there at least I will know and cat get the injectors out. I also sent oil samples from the gearbox, in case oil was being forced through the (closed) pump out valves from engine to gearbox or vice versa, but again this seems unlikely to happen simultaneously on both engines.

Anyone got any ideas ?

Also, I keep the boat in marines des Cogolins in South of France, and the only Caterpillar specialist i can find is in Monaco and is about as helpful as a chocolate teapot. Does anyone know of a Caterpillar expert in the region, or one who visits ?

Thanks in advance.
 
No mayo, no change in any other levels....... it has got me slightly flummoxed, mostly because it is both engines...... if it was just one, then I would be more confident of an ijector problem, or as you say, the pump.

If its the lift pump, and forgive my lack of expertise here, would it still simply be a case of leaking diesel into the sump ?
 
Boatbore said:
No mayo, no change in any other levels....... it has got me slightly flummoxed, mostly because it is both engines...... if it was just one, then I would be more confident of an ijector problem, or as you say, the pump.

If its the lift pump, and forgive my lack of expertise here, would it still simply be a case of leaking diesel into the sump ?
Click to expand...

YES. BUT NOT SURE WHAT LIFT PUMPS YOU HAVE? you could have found the eldorado of all us mobo people a self filling sump no more oil changes just siphon off and store. LOL
 
This might be way off but my newish high powered car has a feature where I can check the oil level on the dash whenever I want and after a heavy duty run I checked it and found the levels to be significantly higher compared to normal. First I thought I had a problem but the next morning the level was back to normal, so I checked again after another stretch of some serious driving and the levels were back up again.
I now know nothing is wrong with the engine and the only theory I can come up with is the oil expanding due to the heat and perhaps air inflating the oil volume.
 
Probably teaching grandmother to suck eggs?

Do you draw the dipstick, clean it, re insert it and then read it ? If not the reading will be inaccurate?
 
Granny needs all the help she can get ! I suspected operator incompetence initially, so made a specific effort to make the readings with the engines stone cold and at roughly the same temperature on consecutive mornings, and also that the dipsticks were clean and then correctly re-seated etc (although this particular error would be more likely to show too low a reading rather than an increased level!). So I dont think thats the issue.

Nor to Bandit's point, is it heat and air related as I left the engines overnight to cool right off and for the oil to drain back to a static level, and yet the level had risen by a clear 2mm after a relatively short 2 hour trip.

I would love the oil analysis to come back clean, and discover that the dipstick seat has dropped or something simple..... I will report back when the oil analysis comes back (should be today or tomorrow).

Thanks for all the comments so far
 
Boatbore said:
Granny needs all the help she can get ! I suspected operator incompetence initially, so made a specific effort to make the readings with the engines stone cold and at roughly the same temperature on consecutive mornings, and also that the dipsticks were clean and then correctly re-seated etc (although this particular error would be more likely to show too low a reading rather than an increased level!). So I dont think thats the issue.

Nor to Bandit's point, is it heat and air related as I left the engines overnight to cool right off and for the oil to drain back to a static level, and yet the level had risen by a clear 2mm after a relatively short 2 hour trip.

I would love the oil analysis to come back clean, and discover that the dipstick seat has dropped or something simple..... I will report back when the oil analysis comes back (should be today or tomorrow).

Thanks for all the comments so far
Click to expand...


2mm is that the issue, or does it continue to rise?
 
Boatbore,

3406E, electronically controlled unit injector engine. Rising oil level COULD be due to nipped 'O' ring when injector replaced, however unless an injector has recently been replaced on BOTH engines more chance of this happening than being stuck by lightning.

Many years ago Deutz introduced a practical blotting paper test, super simple like all clever ideas.

Obtain a piece of white blotting paper or the like, even a piece of newspaper works real well. Blob small sample of lube on to the sheet and wait for five to ten minutes.

Simple blob test tells you all about your lube oil. Your sample will normally separate out to grey centre blob with very tiny fuel halo outside the inner blob, represents a perfectly normal sample. If sample separates out with large clearly defined bright halo you have fuel contamination.

Deutz produced a whole topic on checking lube oil condition using the 'blob' test, for example the halo must have clearly defined edges, if the edge is ragged indicates presence of water in the lube, the list is comprehensive.

I would rest easy, boat owners tend to be a little oversensitive about oil levels.
 
Many years ago Deutz introduced a practical blotting paper test, super simple like all clever ideas.

I will try the bltting paper test. Just for interests sake and until my analysis results come back.

And yes, I also understand about the oversensitivity element...... she's my baby !!!! Unfortunately I dont know if the injectors have been changed as I only bought the boat this year. The engines came out last year, but apparently were "serviced and repainted2 with no specific mention of a strip down, or whether or not the injectors came out. It would be nice if it was just a simple case of apinched o ring though !
 
Boatbore said:
Many years ago Deutz introduced a practical blotting paper test, super simple like all clever ideas.

I will try the bltting paper test. Just for interests sake and until my analysis results come back.

And yes, I also understand about the oversensitivity element...... she's my baby !!!! Unfortunately I dont know if the injectors have been changed as I only bought the boat this year. The engines came out last year, but apparently were "serviced and repainted2 with no specific mention of a strip down, or whether or not the injectors came out. It would be nice if it was just a simple case of apinched o ring though !
Click to expand...

If done by CAT dealer will all be on record....
 
A_8 said:
This might be way off but my newish high powered car has a feature where I can check the oil level on the dash whenever I want and after a heavy duty run I checked it and found the levels to be significantly higher compared to normal. First I thought I had a problem but the next morning the level was back to normal, so I checked again after another stretch of some serious driving and the levels were back up again.
I now know nothing is wrong with the engine and the only theory I can come up with is the oil expanding due to the heat and perhaps air inflating the oil volume.
Click to expand...

Not a dry sump engine by any chance? Oil can only really be checked when the engine is warm. Otherwise it lurks in the tank. High performance engines; designed to avoid metal on metal when under high stress (vigorous cornering etc).
 
Last edited:
You bought it then! Congratulations. Another Ferretti owner on the forum. Can't help you much with your Cat issue but I would be reluctant to engage any service company of any kind in SoF because they'll rip you off. You could try phoning Finnings in the UK and ask if they know a UK independent Cat engineer who could travel. Or contact Volvopaul of this parish who may be interested in doing the job himself or recommending somebody
 
Deleted User said:
You bought it then! Congratulations. Another Ferretti owner on the forum. Can't help you much with your Cat issue but I would be reluctant to engage any service company of any kind in SoF because they'll rip you off. You could try phoning Finnings in the UK and ask if they know a UK independent Cat engineer who could travel. Or contact Volvopaul of this parish who may be interested in doing the job himself or recommending somebody
Click to expand...

Yup, bought it, chugged all the way from Marbella - with a small stopover to replace a failed flexible coupling on the port engine - which was not very funny ! And she is now berthed in Cogolin for now. Still unsure of my winter plans, but I am being shown one or two good (at least by SoF standards!) deals on winter storage, and despite broadly agreeing with your rip off statement down there, there are one or two jobs that I can get done there affordably. I will have a longer chat with Finnings and anyone else who can help re Caterpillars.
 
Boatbore said:
Yup, bought it, chugged all the way from Marbella - with a small stopover to replace a failed flexible coupling on the port engine - which was not very funny ! And she is now berthed in Cogolin for now. Still unsure of my winter plans, but I am being shown one or two good (at least by SoF standards!) deals on winter storage, and despite broadly agreeing with your rip off statement down there, there are one or two jobs that I can get done there affordably. I will have a longer chat with Finnings and anyone else who can help re Caterpillars.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the Italian boat with Cats appreciation society :)

Latestarter1 is a real guru on Diesel engines, and always gives excellent advice based on real knowledge and experience.

Good luck, and where are the pictures?
 
Trying to attach a pic..... hopefully this works !! (I appear to be as equally techno inept, as i am mechanically inept !!)
 
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