Ocean Race Europe

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dunedin

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The OceanRace (previously the Whitbread and Volvo Ocean Race) has been struggling in recent years to get sufficient boats to make up a fleet.

Sadly the Ocean Race Europe, sailed in fully crewed IMOCA 60s, dropped from a small fleet of 7 boats to just 5 after a broach and collision took out two boats in the first 5 minutes of the start of the first leg. Big shame for both crews. The Ocean Race Europe: Collision at the start of the first leg in Kiel, Germany
 
Pretty disastrous. MAPEI almost definitely in the wrong (windward boat), but that's academic given the level of damage to Holcim.

Also both could be found at fault due to rule 14 - avoiding collision. Stand on boat can't just plough into give way boat.
 
jlavery said:
Pretty disastrous. MAPEI almost definitely in the wrong (windward boat), but that's academic given the level of damage to Holcim.

Also both could be found at fault due to rule 14 - avoiding collision. Stand on boat can't just plough into give way boat.
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It looked like both boats were over canvassed and lost control as they both broached. Holcim seemed to round up into MAPEI. Regardless of rules, it looked pretty hard to avoid in the thick of the battle. It's a shame to lose two boats so early on in the race.
 
There is a protest. I'm not sure it's a slam dunk though. 11 vs 16.1. Don't think the video I've seen is clear enough to give an opinion on which way that might fall.

It's not a good look for Ocean racers to be colliding on start lines though.
 
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flaming said:
There is a protest. I'm not sure it's a slam dunk though. 11 vs 16.1. Don't think the video I've seen is clear enough to give an opinion on which way that might fall.

It's not a good look for Ocean racers to be colliding on start lines though.
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It wasn’t on the start line, but a bit along the first leg. Difficult to tell from the limited videos, but one commentary suggested the leeward boat was overtaking - these things accelerate very fast when they get a gust.
 
flaming said:
It's not a good look for Ocean racers to be colliding on start lines though.
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I think they need to have a think about this as it's the second time they have had a collision straight after the start in the ocean race and my impression is that there are generally more collisions in the pre / soon post start in IMOCA races than there should be. The easy thing to do would be to ban using code zero's in say the first five miles / hour after the start as they impeed the view to leeward too much when the boats are close together and would have probably solved this incident.

The other issue they have is I suspect a lot of the sailors involved have very little experience of close quarters sailing and race starts as quite a few now have a pure shorthanded offshore background and probably only do at most 5 starts per year and most of those are on much longer races where the start doens't matter.
 
dunedin said:
It wasn’t on the start line, but a bit along the first leg. Difficult to tell from the limited videos, but one commentary suggested the leeward boat was overtaking - these things accelerate very fast when they get a gust.
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No such thing as overtaking from a RRS point of view. One boat is clear astern of the other, or they are overlapped.

Accelerating isn't the issue, it's turning towards and giving room to keep clear.

From all the angles I've seen it's clear that leeward was having a loss of control moment. The question on windward is then 2 fold.

1. Was the collision immediate, in which case they have already broken rule 11 before the collision, as they were not satisfying the definition of keep clear
"when the boats are overlapped, if the right-of-way boat can also change course in both directions without immediately making contact."

2. If the collision was not immediate, then were they given room to keep clear. Where "room" is defined as
"The space a boat needs in the existing conditions, including space to comply with her obligations under the rules of Part 2 and rule 31, while manoeuvring promptly in a seamanlike way."

So if, for example, the only way to avoid a collision is to broach, then that is not "manoevering promptly in a seamanlike way"

So to be exonerated, the committee needs to be satisfied that windward was initially keeping clear, and then was unable to avoid the collision after leeward turned towards them.

And then we have rule 14, which is "thou shall not hit anything" but has the get out clause - "However, a right-of-way boat, or one sailing within the room or mark-room to which she is entitled, need not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room or mark-room."
In this instance note that windward is NOT a right of way boat.

So... As I see it, leeward is on dodgy ground with respect to 16.1. And windward is on dodgy group with 11. And both are in trouble with 14. Looking again at the footage, there does seem to be quite a period of time where leeward is broaching and windward does not react. And the footage onboard windward of the incident suggests they simply hadn't noticed that leeward was now an issue. If I was a betting man, based on that, I'd be pinging windward. But we'll see....
 
flaming said:
No such thing as overtaking from a RRS point of view. One boat is clear astern of the other, or they are overlapped.

....
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Is a while since i raced seriouly but isn't Rule 17 perhaps relevant here?
Not called overtaking *but establishing an overlap from clear astern" is pretty much a form of overtaking, and limits leeward boat's rights to luff / broach above proper course?
 
dunedin said:
Is a while since i raced seriouly but isn't Rule 17 perhaps relevant here?
Not called overtaking *but establishing an overlap from clear astern" is pretty much a form of overtaking, and limits leeward boat's rights to luff / broach above proper course?
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If they came from astern, then yes. But the videos I've seen suggest that at the start of the incident the windward boat was clear astern.
 
It's not clear how much L changed course after the overlap was established...

Sure - L wiped out a bit, and turned to windward - but in some of the video i have seen it looks like that was over with by the time W established the overlap to windward.

is there any video - say from above - that shows the whole incident and in which we can tell whether L changes course after the overlap is established?

of course, L can change course, but not in a way that W (or clear astern) can not keep clear.

I have to imagine that W just didn't realize how close they were...
 
Laser310 said:
It's not clear how much L changed course after the overlap was established...

Sure - L wiped out a bit, and turned to windward - but in some of the video i have seen it looks like that was over with by the time W established the overlap to windward.

is there any video - say from above - that shows the whole incident and in which we can tell whether L changes course after the overlap is established?

of course, L can change course, but not in a way that W (or clear astern) can not keep clear.

I have to imagine that W just didn't realize how close they were...
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New footage from above on Utube shows L clearly turning hard to Port. The wake is very telling
 
geem said:
New footage from above on Utube shows L clearly turning hard to Port. The wake is very telling
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The video i found has this - but without the lead up to this position.., it does not show the overlap being established or what happened until the boats are side by side.., pretty much at the instant of contact.

anyway - L clearly has a curved wake, so one question is whether L gave W room to keep clear when L altered course.

I suppose one could also ask whether W satisfied its obligation to keep clear when it attempted to pass to windward; the definitions say that in order for W to be keeping clear, L has to be able to change course in both directions without immediately making contact.

the announcer seemed to think L was luffing W intentionally.., but it doesn't look like that was what was happening. L lost control.., but that by itself doesn't mean they are at fault - they are permitted to alter course to windward, subject to giving W room to keep clear.

Anyway, I didn't see anything about a protest hearing - will they hold one?

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if you look at those wakes - starting from when they are roughly parallel.., and before L altered course.., it looks to me like W did not satisfy it's obligation to keep clear - they are too close when you consider the size of the foils and how far they extend into the space between the wakes.

As i noted above the definition of keep clear is:

Keep Clear A boat keeps clear of a right-of-way boat
(a) if the right-of-way boat can sail her course with no need to take
avoiding action and,
(b) when the boats are overlapped, if the right-of-way boat can also change
course in both directions without immediately making contact.

with probably only a few meters between the foils.., i do not think that W satisfies part B of the definition.

L almost certainly breaks rule 14 - avoiding contact

if there is going to be a protest hearing, the protest would have already been filed, and probably already would have been heard.., but i don't see anything on the website about it.

or maybe they just don't talk about that stuff.
 
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a still from just before the one i posted above.., and which is not included in that video...

in this view i think it is pretty clear that, given the speed of these boats, L did not give W room to keep clear.., and L breaks RRS 16.1 and also probably 14.

Whether W breaks RRS 11.., I think is debatable. I guess it depends on how far apart the foils would have been.

Screenshot (28).png
 
I disagree...

AT the start of this video lw is already broaching. ww's course is completely straight until the collision over 10s later. They took no action - and if you see the onboard it's very clear that this is simply because none of them were looking that way.
 
flaming said:
I disagree...

AT the start of this video lw is already broaching. ww's course is completely straight until the collision over 10s later. They took no action - and if you see the onboard it's very clear that this is simply because none of them were looking that way.
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A problem with Code 0 sails. We put someone on the windward ama when it’s crowded to look around the forestay. They weren’t looking, sure. If they had been, they wouldn’t have seen, which is a problem of their own making.
 
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