Numpty question: how long to rebed deck fittings?

[NealB]

Forgive me, I've only owned boats for fifty years or so now, so I've much to learn.

Our 1987 Westerly Falcon was suffering from the dreaded droopy headlining syndrome.

So all the headlinings are now off.

There's no signs of leakage around the many through-deck fittings, but I can't help thinking that the sensible thing to do is to rebed all the shrounds plates, the genoa track, the deck winches, the turning blocks and so on, whilst the underside is all easily accessible.

I know there's an element of how long is a piece of string to this, but would anyone like to offer any (informed) guesses on how long a project that's likely to turn into, please?

Would aiming to have it all done in, say, a week be wildly optimistic?

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[tillergirl]

Ah. We need some metadata first before we can submit an estimate.

How old are you?
How fit are you?
How able are you?
What tools do you have?
Will you need another pair of hands - e.g. holding stuff outside while you are fastening stuff below?

Seriously I am wondering if it is a good idea to disturb something that ain't broke. Having maintained wooden boats over the ages I would be tempted to leave something that is fine alone. Fitting a pair of genoa tracks did take me most of a day and hanging upside down was not the most pleasant job. But a bit of time was taken positioning the tracks (new deck) whereas you will have all the holes.

 

[B27]

I'm playing similar games, with the additional complication that re-sealing the chain plates involves felling the mast.
I'm trying to break the job down into sections because if the weather is good 3 days in a row, I want to go sailing.

Un-bolting a fitting and re-fitting it with new sealant is 20 minutes.
The killer is that you unbolt something and it needs mending or varnishing or replacing, or you need new/different fasteners which take 3 days to order.

You can achieve a lot in a couple of days, but the consequential jobs can run on a bit.
A few seized fasteners can eat a lot of time.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Think of a reasonable time scale and multiply by at least four or more.

 

[NealB]

To Tillergirl (#2)

A thoroughly excellent reponse, on several levels: thank you!

I'm sixty-eight, pretty fit (an every day runner + weekly circuits, pump + yoga).

I've never been known for my DIY skills, though I have owned traditional plank on frame boats, and done nearly all the maintenance on my many other boats over the decades.

I think my tool kit should be able to handle removal of nuts and bolts, and scraping off old sealant.

I am very lucky to have a very willing, and practically-minded female crew, who has a really lovely pair (of helping hands).

I must admit that I share your thoughts about wondering if it is a good idea to disturb something that ain't broke: or is that just me looking for an opt out?

 

[Praxinoscope]

tillergirl I think offers good advise, unless you can see a problem with a fitting leave well alone.
The expandable time-scale suggested by john morris is about right.
Best of luck with your refurbishing.

 

[B27]

I think some things have stood the test of time and don't need fiddling with. Will your 'maintenance' be as good as the original?
Other things are past their smell-by date and should be re-done properly.
Sometimes you don't know something has been leaking and corroding until you have it apart.
Each fitting is a judgement call. The consequences of being wrong vary.
RumPirate will tell us about corroding 30 year old shroud fittings.
Most other things, worst case they drip on your pillow and stain the new headlining.

 

[tillergirl]

I missed mentioning about the weather. Is/will the boat be covered? Rebedding in the wet isn't exactly a no-no but I would avoid it. I reckon two weeks - you got to be an optimism. I estimated removing and laying a new deck as a winter's job. TG was relaunched the following July! But I enjoyed it and we even had a two week holiday on TG in the boatyard.

Dare I introduce a note of humour? - anything that delays fitting the headlining will be a joy.

 

[Dellquay13]

I have found the hard way that things that aren’t broken have a fair chance of becoming so, if I have a go at improving them without a complete toolkit and skill set, leading me to watch in awe as a professional deftly rights my wrongs

 

[PetiteFleur]

I have just done this on my boat. Looked for a 'deck' leak - thought it was from shrouds and babystay, so rebed the deck cover plates using butyl tape (about 30 minutes for each). I also decided to check head lining in the forecastle, fortunately it's plywood covered with lining material and only secured to the deck with 4 screws. I then found the actual leak - at some time before my ownership the forehatch had been replaced and the original screw holes had been filled, and one had dropped out which was not readily visible as it was covered by the lid edge of the hatch. Filled the hole with epoxy.

 

[KevinV]

Some clever previous owner of my boat made the headlining in panels that are easy to remove (and put back up). If you spent your energy doing similar you wouldn't have to worry about "what if" a deck fitting decides to leak in a few year's time.

 

[NealB]

Thank you: lots of good advice, so far.

Please keep it coming, but I'm off to bed (ie to sleep: nothing to do with deck fittings).

 

[Bodach na mara]

Our boat is on the same basic hull mould as yours but 3 years older and with plywood ceiling panels. I took the two nearest the cockpit hatch down to get access to the halyard clutches and some rewiring and my mate decided that she was fed up with the poor light in the cabin caused in part by the varnish finish of the panels. She wanted to paint them in a light colour, and I decided there would be less mess if they were all remove and painted in the shed at home. So the other two also came down. All done in one day. But it then took most of the next day to remove the broken clutch and sort the wiring problems. These turned out to relate to the use by someone unknown who had used ordinary domestic terminal blocks which were all showing signs of corrosion. Refitting the clutch took a surprisingly long time as I was on my own and had to find ways to get it in position from above while not being able to reach the underside. But the real fun came when trying to put up the repainted panels. THEY WOULDN'T BL***Y FIT!!!

It took two of us a full day to get them back in place and secured with about 1/5th of the fasteners that were eventually needed and a further day to get the remaining fasteners in and install the wooden straps that covered the joints. So I agree completely with the advice given above. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Only if you find clear evidence of leakage should you disturb and fastenings. The guys at Westerly who fitted out your bare hull were working in better conditions than you will be. And the linings had yet to be installed so access was better. If it's not leaking it has stood the test of time. DON'T disturb it or you will probably regret it.

 

[KompetentKrew]

There's no signs of leakage around the many through-deck fittings,

If it ain't broke, don't fit it.

 

[NealB]

I'm liking the turn this thread has taken!

I'll spend today taking a really close look for signs of leaks, with the help of a hose.

 

[tillergirl]

Referring to Kevin's thread, whilst of course Tiller Girl had no headlining being wooden (I reckoned the only advantage of a plastic boat was somewhere to hide wiring ) but now running an old battered motor boat, I inherited a 'headlining'. It had been fitted with a headlining using doorskin ply - battens glued to the roof, so the doorskin was screwed into the battens and the joins and screws hidden behind battens. The downside was a small void between the roof and the inside of the doorskin which increased engine noise which reverbed in the void. Last winter I stripped it back to fill the void with acoustic foam and then lined the outside of the doorskin with normal headlining. It does have the advantage of being now easily removal (and did atentuate the engine noise sigificantly). I do stressed this is a work boat, not pretty but is functional.

SD1 by Roger Gaspar, on Flickr

 

[Wansworth]

Ah. We need some metadata first before we can submit an estimate.

How old are you?
How fit are you?
How able are you?
What tools do you have?
Will you need another pair of hands - e.g. holding stuff outside while you are fastening stuff below?

Seriously I am wondering if it is a good idea to disturb something that ain't broke. Having maintained wooden boats over the ages I would be tempted to leave something that is fine alone. Fitting a pair of genoa tracks did take me most of a day and hanging upside down was not the most pleasant job. But a bit of time was taken positioning the tracks (new deck) whereas you will have all the holes.

Yes ability to crouch for long periods

 

[NealB]

Referring to Kevin's thread, whilst of course Tiller Girl had no headlining being wooden (I reckoned the only advantage of a plastic boat was somewhere to hide wiring ) but now running an old battered motor boat, I inherited a 'headlining'. It had been fitted with a headlining using doorskin ply - battens glued to the roof, so the doorskin was screwed into the battens and the joins and screws hidden behind battens. The downside was a small void between the roof and the inside of the doorskin which increased engine noise which reverbed in the void. Last winter I stripped it back to fill the void with acoustic foam and then lined the outside of the doorskin with normal headlining. It does have the advantage of being now easily removal (and did atentuate the engine noise sigificantly). I do stressed this is a work boat, not pretty but is functional.

SD1 by Roger Gaspar, on Flickr

Looks good, and very in character for the boat.

 

[dunedin]

I'm liking the turn this thread has taken!

I'll spend today taking a really close look for signs of leaks, with the help of a hose.

Take your camera / phone with you, and take a lot of photos of every bolt and fitting that will be covered by the new lining. Then in the warmth of home edit and caption all the photos, so that in future you know exactly where every nut and bolt is. Then if every need to access you know exactly where to make a neat cut in the lining, and what tools will be needed.

Personally I am very much in the “don’t mess with things” camp. But I might be inclined to prioritised a few high risk areas such as shroud chainplates.

 

[Concerto]

Being a Westerly owner, I should mention all fittings that were fitted during building, Westerly glassfibred over all of the nuts for extra protection against leaks. If there have been any nuts exposed whilst the head lining is removed, these are fittings added by a previous owner. If they have no signs of leaking, then leave well alone.

You may find my presntation of fitting foam backed vinyl in my Fulmar worth looking at.

https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/1/17/Vinyl_Headling_Concerto_PowerPoint.pdf