November YM - Dangerous advice

[Rowana]

In this month's YM Any Questions, a reader asks about potential problems with water and gas while daysailing in winter. While I agree with most of what is said, the last paragraph fills me with horror.

"Butane gas becomes very sluggish in cold weather and the bottles need warming before use. AN EASY WAY TO DO THIS IS BY DISCONNECTING THE BOTTLE AND BRINGING IT INSIDE"

This last sentence is (IMHO) an absoloute no-no. If the valve on the bottle is even only very slightly weeping, then there is the potential to fill the bilges with gas. Why on earth do you think that a seperate, properly drained, gas bottle locker is required ??

Much better, if only daysailing in winter, is to take flasks of hot soup & tea/coffee, and forget trying to use the cooker. Either that, or use propane or a spirit stove, if you really want to have a brew.

I would also suggest that taking the gas bottle inside would negate your insurance policy.


Any comments??

Jim

 

[chas]

Tend to agree, unless you do a water test on the cylinder to make sure it is not leaking. What about the sea? I seem to remember that the critical temperature for butane to boil is about 0 deg and the sea is normally warmer than that. Put it over the side on a line?

 

[gunnarsilins]

Butane

When I bought my Moody from Scotland and sailed her Stockholm/Sweden a couple of years ago she was equipped with 2 huge blue (12 kgs ?) butane bottles. These lasted a whole winter (I keep the yacht afloat all year around) before I changed to Swedish standard propane bottles.
Despite temperatures sometimes well below -10 C the butane never failed to work fine! The bottles were stored unheated.

 

[Plum]

Bad advice from YM

I completely agree with you. However, I have often cooked breakfast after a night of minus 4 degrees Celcius using my Butane fed stove without a problem.

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Butane

I'm surprised to hear this - are you sure it was butane? The boiling point of butane is slightly below 0 deg C but a little higher than this is needed to develop pressure to overcome tubing resistance and to give some flow at the stove. We were on board almost every weekend last winter and the temperature never dropped below a good frost and the (fresh) water in the marina never froze. Despite this there were times when the flow of gas almost ceased, certainly not enough to fry bacon on. Our normal practice when this happens is to heat a kettle of water as much as possible, perhaps to 40 or 50 degrees, then tip it over the bottle in the locker. This treatment always solves the problem. When we know that it will be cold overnight we fill a thermos-flask with hot water the night before and tip this over the gas bottle before breakfast.

 

[gunnarsilins]

Honestly, I am not....

...SURE it was butane.
But the bottles were definetely blue and brittish, the words Calor an butane was written on them, they were filled, or rather exchanged in a marina near Glasgow.

They are stored in a non-heated gas locker under a cockpit seat. But the copper tube has about 9/10 of it´s length running through the heated living qarters - could that be the answer?

 

[Guest]

Re: Bad advice from YM

I agree.

Its got to be pretty bloody taters for before it won't work.

Geoff W

 

[Guest]

I think that in view of the horrendous consequences then the least amount of fiddling the better.

 

[graham]

I have encountered the small butane stoves carried by backpackers etc not work due to the cold.Also our water bottles were frozen solid for days on end.

The temp had dropped to a long way below zero. Diesel Lorries were having problems starting due to diesel starting to freeze.(This was not in this country by the way).

I have used butane in temps slightly below zero without problem .We used to wrap the diesel tanks in old blankets ,possibly the same would work with butane bottles.I dont think it will ever be a problem in the South of England the sort of temp needed would have the sea freezing. Not unheard of but very unusual in these parts.

 

[ponapay]

The simple solution is to switch to Propane, either just for the winter or permanently.

I did 3 years ago and have not regretted it at all. propane is much more readily available in decent sizes. I fit two 19kg propane tanks on deck on the quarterdeck, they drain overboard via the scuppers, I have a leak detector which cuts off the supply and a bubble sensor for security, and a single piece pipe all the way to the stove tap and hose. It alkl works well and gives no problems when the temperature is below freezing.

 

[chippie]

Re:Freezing

Jeez you guys are tough, and I whinge about the NZ winter.

 

[BrianJ]

Re:Avoid the problem

Sail in the South Pacific... its the best.
BrianJ

 

[vyv_cox]

Re:Avoid the problem

Have you got jobs for us all?

 

[Mirelle]

Some of us don\'t have a problem with this

because we cook on a Taylor's Para-fin stove, using paraffin.

And in reallt cold conditions I am likely to have the cabin stove alight, and we can cook on that too.

 

[Boathook]

Re: Butane

I have never had problems with butane bottles not working due to the cold and this has been when the boat is out of the water with ice on the decks on the South Coast!. The bottles are under cover in the gas locker which possibly does make a difference.

 

[BrianJ]

Re:Avoid the problem

Only good looking young girls....in the NAVY
BrianJ

 

[Chris_Robb]

keep orrrffff

Keep off my daughter then!!!!!