November YM and PBO almost identical.

IPC haven't really cottoned on to this yet. The future is probably much more varied delivery of content, paper and electronic, with a lot more immediate interactivity with the audience.

The problem is making it work financially; at present people are very unwilling to pay for electronic content. That means that the cost of content provision has to be recouped through ad revenue. Paradoxically that makes the content provider more, rather than less, dependent on advertisers and therefore requires them to take a more popularist approach.

We can already see this in the way television has changed over the last 10 years, IMHO it has been dumbed down and reduced to a series of cheap-to-make high-appeal rubbish like (.... insert any random quiz/talent/"reality" tv prog here).

While these forums are all well and good in the current form the do not really replace the mags because (a) there is insufficient news and product reviews and (b) there is no form of quality or editorial control.
 
How should a boat be tested? If one looks across at car magazines they do not do much better. They may produce some performance figures but these are never too dissimilar to manufacturers' figures to be of any independent value. Just like the typical boat test most of the comments - "riding a wave of torque" - are impressionistic. Testing performance on a track bears no relation to typical use. Only on infrequent occasions do I drive like the Top Gear team. Car magazines do have long term tests, over months rather than hours, that provide some perspective on what the car is like to own and maintain.

Where YM, PBO, and YBW are weak is in providing data. Even if fear of litigation prevents them from having the courage to lift the floor to study the keel support it is still possible to report ballast ratios, lay-ups method, materials, weights, and polar diagrams. This used to be in YBW tests but has disappeared. They could also provide tested information on angle of heel with full sail at various windspeeds plus the angle at which the rudder loses grip, and the windspeed at which the first reef is needed. If the wind is only 4 knots on the day of test then they should go back again when it is 10 knots and back again when it is 20.

Without this a boat test is a nice read but gives no more information than just looking at the brochure.
 
bedouin said:
... Therefore I suspect that the typical audience for YM are aspirational owners, charterers and maybe newbie owners.

I think within the boating world there is the demand for a more "specialist" publication aimed at the average contributor to these boards, ...
Click to expand...

I have to say, I always thought that too.
But that YM was the answer to type 1 and PBO was the specialist mag to help people sort real issues.

The overlap could/should therefore be some of the guides to ports/anchorages etc that both an owner and a charterer may benefit from ?

I subscribe to both, but its looking like one is going to have to go, unless we see some Di vergance before the Christmas renewal dates ...
 
To me it does seem strange that a motor magazine writer and presenter of a TV program about cars, can be downright derogatory about any car, verbally and in print,and manufacturers still give them their product to abuse physically and repeatedly in future programs. That opinion is never tested in courts for libel,slander or defamation of a brand ,or product as far as I'm aware in this case.
So, how is it so different with yachts/boats,not that I'd give much credence to a J Clarkson 'type' reviewing.


ianat182
 
saltwater_gypsy said:
THIS....... ie forums, are the magazines of tomorrow.
I have found more useful information on forums than in any magazine. The are INTERACTIVE and FREE!!!!
Ask a simple question about anchors, chartplotters, best yacht under 30ft etc etc and you get massess of information. PLUS, there is a lot of good humour between the lines.
Click to expand...

PLUS , they're bound to be honest.
None of us have advertisers to worry about.
 
Cerddinen said:
Where YM, PBO, and YBW are weak is in providing data. Even if fear of litigation prevents them from having the courage to lift the floor to study the keel support it is still possible to report ballast ratios, lay-ups method, materials, weights, and polar diagrams. This used to be in YBW tests but has disappeared.
Click to expand...

Where the design of the boat allows (not with IP or contessa 32 for example) we'll always check out the keel bolts..have a look though the boat test gallery to see the images we don't have the space for in the magazine.

Since the redesign we print polars when they are made available to us (unfortunately not in the IP test) see the Elan 310 next month, we also print displacement/Length, Sail area displ, ballast ratio and have done for some time.
 
After 18 months with ST and a long spell not buying any sailing mag., I picked up this latest PBO and regretted it.
. Until there is a seimic shift in price (downwards) and an improvement in content - this will be last purchase .
But then I've always been a cheap skate!
 
fmoran said:
As some people have already metioned in other threads these magazines are getting thinner - I can put up with that in the current economic climate. However the content is merging / shared and there is little difference in articles and the boats / products being tested. This used never be the case up to recently and I subscribed to both for the difference they offered. I am now thinking of cancelling one, as they are almost indistinguishable in their content any longer. Anyone else feel that way, the November editions has brought it home for me.
Click to expand...

Mind you, I bought November's Sailing Today for a change. And guess what? Anchors reviewed (just like YM), how to climb the mast (just like PBO) and the Island Packet Estero (just like YM and PBO). All it lacked was the IPC regulars: "Some Lesser Known Anchorages in the Solent" and "Man Overboard: Could You Cope?"
 
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pudding proof

leaving aside 'how' it happened, I often buy YM & PBO despite noticing reading time declining - I'm SO pleased to see this thread as I picked up PBO and thought " I've got it already, stupid old duffer" - went home, looked for Nov. PBO in the shed. Can't find it. Next time in shop -had another look. "Am sure have got this" go home etc etc. I don't really care if the situation was gathered from coincidence. I just went through a bunch of old PBO's and YM and it's clear they just tried harder then. Am extending the wi-fi to the shed.
 
Sorry, being pedantic as it is Sunday and lashing down with rain and 50kts of wind/hail.

I think the decision of YM to delay a test was a good one. It makes no sense for all the magazines to do the same thing. I end up reading YM,PBO,ST and YW and there is a huge amount of overlap.

Incidentally, the YM test is scheduled for next month so we should have some fun in the cold weather!
 
Y M

Thin is an understatement .

There are 131 pages in this month YM 47 are adverts at £4.10 it too much I too am about to stop buying it untill it is improved or the cost come down
 
And loyalty comes last!

My YM subscription is due and the cover letter tells me what a valued customer I am. Take a look at the Joe Public offer in any edition and you'll find that the rate is lower. I queried this to be told. Yep, we want to attract new subscriptions. By implication then, we also hope the dummies already on subscription can't put 2 and 2 together.

My only regret in not renewing, agreeing wholheartedly with many of the observations within this post, is that I won't get to read the thoughts of the wise old bird, Mr Cunliffe.
 
Having subscribed to YM, PBO and ST for a number of years I too have come to the conclusion that there is so much overlap and too many of the same adverts to make it worthwhile me spending all that money every month. I too have cancelled my subscriptions in favour of buying the magazine when the content looks to be compelling enough which has not been the case for a few months now. My view was reinforced by this month's YM which was very light compared to some editions of even a year ago.
 
saltwater_gypsy said:
THIS....... ie forums, are the magazines of tomorrow.
I have found more useful information on forums than in any magazine. The are INTERACTIVE and FREE!!!!
Ask a simple question about anchors, chartplotters, best yacht under 30ft etc etc and you get massess of information. PLUS, there is a lot of good humour between the lines.
Click to expand...

I have difficulty balancing the monitor, keyboard and mouse on my knees when sitting on the lavatory. Changing to a laptop was better, but I still find a good magazine or book to be the most practical, especially when I've belatedly noticed that some other bu*ger has used the last of the toilet roll :eek:
 
A sailing friend left several years of PBO from the early 80's in my W/shop for storage. I used to take one at random for reading at lunch. Realy good DIY articles on many subjects. Often forgot to eat. More recently I subscribed to PBO and was less impressed, but still OK.
A neighbour takes PBO, and it is not getting any better. I am probably an old 'phart' and realise that it is difficult to bring up new stuff every week rather than look in the arquives and recycle. And how much new stuff is there? Apart from the techy end, boats are not realy much different.
So I tend to agree with the idea that the market is new sailers or people moving up from small boats.

A bit simplistic, but...
A
 
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