Not quite single line reefing - why?

[Daydream believer]

How does that work when easing the sail down when the luff isn't pulled tight? How do you ensure that the batten car is where it should be? I always marked the halyard at the clutch as that was easy to ease to.

Some make the mistake of letting off all the halyard at the start. In my view ( & it is only mine) It is better to let the halyard off in stages. As I wind the reefing line in I concentrate on making sure that the clew is coming in & as it does I slip the clutch to let a few feet of halyard at a time. When the batten car is a couple of feet above the stop point I tighten the clew right up. Then I wind the luff down only slipping the halyard enough to allow it to come down. I always keep tension on it.
This method prevents the luff block jaming at the gooseneck & helps prevent friction building up as it binds the reef line in with the bunched sail.
If one just let the halyard go to a marked spot the luff block flaps about & does not always sit right with the reef lines. This can cause friction. It also makes tensioning the luff awkward. More so if the line has a twist in it & causes the block to rotate thus jamming the rope.
Another thing that eases friction is allowing the boat to luff as close to windward on the jib as possible. If really difficult start the engine & motor into the wind with the boom slightly to one side to clear one's head. The shaking of the sail helps the reef line go through the rollers & pullies. With a fully battened sail I find it impossible to reef if the boat is too far off the wind. I suspect that the same would apply with 2 line systems. It certainly would with my last 2 boats, which were separate systems.

 

[Daydream believer]

And I like scampering on deck!

Many years ago I had to heave too in a F9 for 4.5 hours. It was horrendous with white water breaking across the boat, until I took the decision to heave too. Then everything quietened down. I managed to sleep for 3 hours, due to exhaustion. I even put on dry clothes. When it was time to get going, I was in the eye of the storm & there was little wind. The only way to get the boat moving & gain steerage, was to go forward, remove the hanked on storm jib & hank on a working jib. No sooner had I got to the bow when I had to grab the pulpit with both hands, as the bow went under & water came up to my arm pits.

So if you like "scampering on deck!" You can have it. Strolling about in warm calm weather is one thing. However, in true rough weather it can be a totally different story. I am not sure that every forumite does actually sail in much over F7. I do not mean the odd gust. I mean sustained winds with seas to match. Soon puts a new slant on "scampering on deck!"

Been there done it, Soaked the "T" shirt. I will stick to the cockpit thank you.

 

[flaming]

Some make the mistake of letting off all the halyard at the start. In my view ( & it is only mine) It is better to let the halyard off in stages. As I wind the reefing line in I concentrate on making sure that the clew is coming in & as it does I slip the clutch to let a few feet of halyard at a time. When the batten car is a couple of feet above the stop point I tighten the clew right up. Then I wind the luff down only slipping the halyard enough to allow it to come down. I always keep tension on it.
This method prevents the luff block jaming at the gooseneck & helps prevent friction building up as it binds the reef line in with the bunched sail.
If one just let the halyard go to a marked spot the luff block flaps about & does not always sit right with the reef lines. This can cause friction. It also makes tensioning the luff awkward. More so if the line has a twist in it & causes the block to rotate thus jamming the rope.
Another thing that eases friction is allowing the boat to luff as close to windward on the jib as possible. If really difficult start the engine & motor into the wind with the boom slightly to one side to clear one's head. The shaking of the sail helps the reef line go through the rollers & pullies. With a fully battened sail I find it impossible to reef if the boat is too far off the wind. I suspect that the same would apply with 2 line systems. It certainly would with my last 2 boats, which were separate systems.

Wowzers....

Bearing in mind that I've done thousands of miles with the exact same setup as you posted up thread, I'm really quite amazed at that. We never had to babysit it like that, just bang off the halyard to the mark and wind on the pennant. Could get that done on any point of sail as well, with a fully battened sail and harken cars. In fact to my mind that was one of the advantages over conventional slab reefing, that you had the pennant to help pull the luff down, so could reef off the wind if you needed to. Didn't do the sail much good, so always preferred to bring the wind forward of the beam if possible, but it was available if needed.

I'm also intrigued that you in effect tension the clew first, I cannot envisage how you get enough tension in the foot if you haven't yet fixed the tack before you wind on the clew.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Our reefing goes:-
Reefing line onto winch.
Sheet and traveller off a bit.
2 turns of main halyard onto winch, clutch off, pass tail to helm.
Winch the reefing line til it stops.
Take halyard back from helm, tension sail luff.
Sheet in, traveller to best position.
Take up slack on the next reefing line, tidy up tails.
It’s not rocket science, and involves no scampering of any sort.

 

[Daydream believer]

I'm also intrigued that you in effect tension the clew first, I cannot envisage how you get enough tension in the foot if you haven't yet fixed the tack before you wind on the clew.

I do not have the benefit of Harken cars so the battens jam if not fairly close to the wind. Even when simply hoisting or dropping.
Re the clew.Perhaps I should have said MOST of the tension. The last bit does both.& I do get a good shape in the foot & I can vary it if I wish. But the aligner on the mast holds the luff in ok so it is not an issue.

 

[Hermit]

Guess what - I have in-mast reefing on my mainmast (and I have to go to the mast to do it!)

 

[geem]

With regard to the comment about not having cars making reefing harder. Our previous boat had Reciprocating ball bearing cars with an external track fitted to the mast slot. It was an expensive system. It wasn't as good as the Selden mast cars fitted to the existing boat. The cars run in the mast slot but have 4 wheels that run on the outside of the mast. It's not as elegant an engineering solution as the ball bearing cars but they don't seem to bind. This allows us to reef without being head to wind. We have these cars on the battens and on the intermediate attachment points. It also makes hoisting a breeze. The sail will come down like a guillotine if you dump the main halyard

 

[mattonthesea]

Many years ago I had to heave too in a F9 for 4.5 hours. It was horrendous with white water breaking across the boat, until I took the decision to heave too. Then everything quietened down. I managed to sleep for 3 hours, due to exhaustion. I even put on dry clothes. When it was time to get going, I was in the eye of the storm & there was little wind. The only way to get the boat moving & gain steerage, was to go forward, remove the hanked on storm jib & hank on a working jib. No sooner had I got to the bow when I had to grab the pulpit with both hands, as the bow went under & water came up to my arm pits.

So if you like "scampering on deck!" You can have it. Strolling about in warm calm weather is one thing. However, in true rough weather it can be a totally different story. I am not sure that every forumite does actually sail in much over F7. I do not mean the odd gust. I mean sustained winds with seas to match. Soon puts a new slant on "scampering on deck!"

Been there done it, Soaked the "T" shirt. I will stick to the cockpit thank you.

Only been in a F9 once on the way back from the Azores. Dead run with poled out pocket hankie. As I sail tied the main I remember thinking how relaxed I felt. I appreciate that I was lucky, especially as my brother saw the eye a miles away on his watch.
On my next watch I went up front to gybe the foresail and pole. Still fairly comfortable.

Upwind would be a different story. I'd have hove to.
And anywhere near land then F8 and no closer to the wind than beam reach. Close reach can be like hugging the mast in a waterfall let alone that ancient memory of purgatory, the close haul ???. Haven't done that in serious wind for years!

But it seems that this discussion is largely about the balance of perception of danger with comfort, efficiency and convenience. That's a lot of permutation to be had.
On that note, I have a furling genoa; much prefer hanked but, short-handed, the last three win out ?

 

[ylop]

Autopilot

The boat in the OP does not have an autopilot so one crew member is on the helm. One goes to mast. The halyard winches are at the companionway - it might be possible to take the reef and halyard lines to the sheet winches and the helm do both but otherwise to make it a slick operation is at least a two, and ideally a three person operation. On a windy day with sails flapping the person at the mast is using hand signals to indicate if more/less slack is required (marking the lines accurately may help - thanks for that). If you have experienced well rehearsed crew it probably works well nearly every time. If your crew change a lot or lack confidence it can be enough hassle that you leave the sail in the bag on days when you might have to do this.

 

[thinwater]

The advantage of hook at the mast is that they give the outhaul something solid to pull against. Single line systems can put a LOT of stress on the slides and pull them out of the trck or tear the sail, unless the single line holds the tack securely forward and very near the mast.

 

[Daydream believer]

The advantage of hook at the mast is that they give the outhaul something solid to pull against. Single line systems can put a LOT of stress on the slides and pull them out of the trck or tear the sail, unless the single line holds the tack securely forward and very near the mast.

Perhaps you do not understand how the system works, when set up correctly. There is no load whatsoever on the sliders or sail track below the actual reef point in the sail. The reef line comes out of the gooseneck via a pulley , through the luff pulley & down through the mast aligner. Both the gooseneck pulley & the mast aligner stop the luff of the sail moving aft.It ends up in a similar position as if there were a 2 line system. The luff pulley ends up very close to the gooseneck & cannot move aft. The sail sliders are positioned to allow the sail to tuck down to this level in the same way that they would with dual line system.

 

[Martin&Rene]

Like Daydream Believer, I sail a Hanse, so having an efficient reefing system on the laarge mainsail is a must, as that is the sail we reef first. I have a proper simple single line reefing system brought back to the cockpit on all three reefing points. Ball bearing blocks on sail reefing points is a must, (I have used Harken air blocks on the leech). For a full description and diagrams and pictures of my system look here.

Single Line 3rd Reefing Setup

Daydream Believers advice on monitoring how far you ease the main halyard as you tighten the reefing lines is really significant and makes a real difference.

 

[Yealm]

Seriously? Letting go the tiller/wheel and leaving the cockpit as weather gets heavier is not ideal if avoidable, hooking and keeping hooked the horn whilst tensioning the halyard is fiddly. This is especially the case when already reefed and more reefs are needed - by definition the conditions would already be heavy.

I know it is possible and has been done for years but that does not mean that there is not a safety and quicker way. After al, for many years sails were reefed by sending men aloft. Not something most of us would want to return to.

Why are you hooking on the horn and doing halyard at the same time?

My technique’s to lower the sail enough (cockpit-led halyard), go to mast to hook on horn, return to cockpit to tension halyard again- three separate manoeuvres.