Not quite single line reefing - why?

[Dutch01527]

I have experimented with reefing options quite a lot over the last couple of years, on three boats ranging from 8.6 to 12.2 metres. My observations are as follows:
1) Hook on to gooseneck at mast is a real pain when shorthanded
2) Full single line reefing resulted in lots of loose line, slow setting and friction
3) Two lines per reefing point led back to the cockpit combined with a boom strut was the best compromise in terms of speed, effort and ease of use. Clew line runs inside boom. Reef lines are marked so can be preset on hoist if required.

Each boat will be different but that set up means that I now reef/unreef much more frequently that I used to,

 

[geem]

I have experimented with reefing options quite a lot over the last couple of years, on three boats ranging from 8.6 to 12.2 metres. My observations are as follows:
1) Hook on to gooseneck at mast is a real pain when shorthanded
2) Full single line reefing resulted in lots of loose line, slow setting and friction
3) Two lines per reefing point led back to the cockpit combined with a boom strut was the best compromise in terms of speed, effort and ease of use. Clew line runs inside boom. Reef lines are marked so can be preset on hoist if required.

Each boat will be different but that set up means that I now reef/unreef much more frequently that I used to,

Can you explain why the hook on gooseneck is a pain when short handed? It may be an anomaly of that set up. Are you using spectacles? Are they the correct length for the boom/ sail? They need to take in to account how the sail sits on he boom when reefed. Our third reef spectacles were too short once all the roller cars were stacked in the track. We had to lengthen them to be able to hook the reef in easily.
We sail long distance short handed to the point that we don't wake off watch crew to reef or unreef. The process is done single handed without assistance regularly. Set up well it is no problem. Like most things, if it's set up badly they can go wrong quickly

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I removed my reefing horns and now simply pass a lashing through the reef cringle and around the boom. Two lines for this purpose are kept handy at the mast.

Good man. I've torn sails on those damn things.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Can you explain why the hook on gooseneck is a pain when short handed? It may be an anomaly of that set up. Are you using spectacles? Are they the correct length for the boom/ sail? They need to take in to account how the sail sits on he boom when reefed. Our third reef spectacles were too short once all the roller cars were stacked in the track. We had to lengthen them to be able to hook the reef in easily.
We sail long distance short handed to the point that we don't wake off watch crew to reef or unreef. The process is done single handed without assistance regularly. Set up well it is no problem. Like most things, if it's set up badly they can go wrong quickly

Our 1st cruiser had them. I didn’t mind at all going to the mast on that boat, but hooking the cringle in could be a bit of a pain, bucketing about in an increasing chop. Your boat doesn’t do much of that, so maybe that’s why it works for you. It is a very sound solution for many people of course, just not everyone.

 

[Daydream believer]

Our third reef spectacles were too short once all the roller cars were stacked in the track. We had to lengthen them to be able to hook the reef in easily.

I know that this question was not addressed to me, but surely the answer would be to have longer spectacles. When my sail was cut I wanted the reefing pulley on the luff of the sail to come right down to the gooseneck; so I had the sailmaker arrange the position of the sliders such that the slider below this point was not so close that the sail was not prevented from folding down to the gooseneck. If the slider is too close the sail will not fold down. That can alter the angle of the boom.
I note that one poster complained of tearing his sail on the horns. That is possibly because the sail was not fitted with spectacles. Trying to fold a sail & get a sail cringle over the horn can be awkward. I know I used to do it. With only spectacle rings on the horns it is easy to get 2 or 3 reefs on a single horn. However, that does not stop the sail accidentally getting snagged on the hoist which can be a problem with horns

 

[flaming]

I see no point in having blocks in the boom as they just make for more friction. They do NOT add to the leverage as I set up a test rig on a bench & inserted a set of fishing scales in the system to prove otherwise.
If a line were to break at sea it would be impossible to rectify. A straight line could possibly be sorted if there was no obstruction within the boom.
As for the 3rd reef- I would suggest that it is not needed very often ( How often does one meet F9) so need not have single line. There are other ways, but they do need a trip forward.
As for comments about long lines in the cockpit i think that is irrelevant. It just involves an extra couple of coils hung up. Surely no sensible sailor leaves loose line on the cockpit floor.
View attachment 142985

This is exactly the setup I have sailed a lot of miles with on my Dad's old boats. It's ok, it works. Especially on the Dufour which had high end roller bearing blocks on everything. And if "not leaving the cockpit" is your primary goal, then I 100% endorse this setup.
One quick note - it is very important to spend some time getting the exact right amount of halyard for each reef, and then mark that so you can go back to it easily. Halyard too high results in the boom at an upwards angle, halyard too low results in the luff block being pulled into the gooseneck fitting and jamming it all up.

However, compared to simple slab reefing, it is actually slower, and requires a lot more winding. No matter how much reduce the friction there is just no getting away from the fact that there is a lot of line to pull in, and in any breeze (which of course is quite likely given that it's a reef) you're unlikley to be able to pull much in by hand.

For those talking about winches at the mast - forget that. This is a modern BAV you're talking about. Winches are at the companion way, and that works very well for that sort of boat. Winches on the mast are a good solution for some types of boat, but completely unnecessary for this type of boat.

 

[Neeves]

Most reefing systems are very simple and trying them is not actually difficult. You might need a long piece of rope and a couple of blocks. it might seem complex - but its easy to try and costs little. You can neaten it up with new smaller, larger rope, better blocks

its worth the effort.

The target, for most of us (without the gorilla crew) should be a reefing system that one person can manage


We have winches on the mast, one on each side. Great for halyards on furling headsails and tightening the luff - but you feel very exposed - being a wimp I prefer the enclosed cockpit. The theory is that multihulls sail flat, so don't need the Zimmer frame at the mast - reality is different they bounce around a bit and I've yet to sail in a cat climbing big seas that sailed 'flat'.

Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

You’d hope that your sailmaker would tell you or just put the cringles in the correct place, if the subject wasn't raised during discussions. Our main came with the boat, made by a veteran sailmaker. It’s done correctly, and I cannot imagine the previous owner of our boat telling him to. In fact, he probably never left Portsmouth harbour.

 

[geem]

This is exactly the setup I have sailed a lot of miles with on my Dad's old boats. It's ok, it works. Especially on the Dufour which had high end roller bearing blocks on everything. And if "not leaving the cockpit" is your primary goal, then I 100% endorse this setup.
One quick note - it is very important to spend some time getting the exact right amount of halyard for each reef, and then mark that so you can go back to it easily. Halyard too high results in the boom at an upwards angle, halyard too low results in the luff block being pulled into the gooseneck fitting and jamming it all up.

However, compared to simple slab reefing, it is actually slower, and requires a lot more winding. No matter how much reduce the friction there is just no getting away from the fact that there is a lot of line to pull in, and in any breeze (which of course is quite likely given that it's a reef) you're unlikley to be able to pull much in by hand.

For those talking about winches at the mast - forget that. This is a modern BAV you're talking about. Winches are at the companion way, and that works very well for that sort of boat. Winches on the mast are a good solution for some types of boat, but completely unnecessary for this type of boat.

Yep, we have five winches at the mast. A totally different set up.

 

[Daydream believer]

One quick note - it is very important to spend some time getting the exact right amount of halyard for each reef, and then mark that so you can go back to it easily. Halyard too high results in the boom at an upwards angle, halyard too low results in the luff block being pulled into the gooseneck fitting and jamming it all up.

However, compared to simple slab reefing, it is actually slower, and requires a lot more winding.

Re marking the halyard. I started out by putting a coloured whipping cord in the haylard but changed to a florecent tape on the mast because I removed the last bit of halyard at the head of the sail.. There are 2. each one aligns with one of the batten cars on the sail & I find this easier as I am always looking up at what I am doing. Easier to see at night . Although the "flourecent" has long since faded & I currently have black duct tape.

Re single line being slower. By the time I have hooked on & got on deck & crawled forward. I would also have to get back to the helm after having tidied the lines to the mast. I would have reefed any way. Also, I would be able to get sailing again before I coiled the reef lines, which I could do later if needs be.
But as pointed out , A lot of the modern AWBs are light and bouncy, in the smaller sizes at least, so going forward is different to a heavier displacement with easy motion. Plus nice wide side decks; which is something I really miss at times, even in port.
But one only needs a lobster pot to appear ( Do not tell me that they do not when coastal sailing ) & a sudden course change needed half way through the operation, meaning getting back to the helm double quick. So do not write off reefing from the cockpit as being slower-- For a single handed sailor that is.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Nobody’s side decks are wider than ours, but I’m still very happy to have cockpit led single line reefing. It takes less than a minute to stick a reef in.

 

[flaming]

Re marking the halyard. I started out by putting a coloured whipping cord in the haylard but changed to a florecent tape on the mast because I removed the last bit of halyard at the head of the sail.. There are 2. each one aligns with one of the batten cars on the sail & I find this easier as I am always looking up at what I am doing. Easier to see at night . Although the "flourecent" has long since faded & I currently have black duct tape.

How does that work when easing the sail down when the luff isn't pulled tight? How do you ensure that the batten car is where it should be? I always marked the halyard at the clutch as that was easy to ease to.

Re single line being slower. By the time I have hooked on & got on deck & crawled forward. I would also have to get back to the helm after having tidied the lines to the mast. I would have reefed any way. Also, I would be able to get sailing again before I coiled the reef lines, which I could do later if needs be.
But as pointed out , A lot of the modern AWBs are light and bouncy, in the smaller sizes at least, so going forward is different to a heavier displacement with easy motion. Plus nice wide side decks; which is something I really miss at times, even in port.
But one only needs a lobster pot to appear ( Do not tell me that they do not when coastal sailing ) & a sudden course change needed half way through the operation, meaning getting back to the helm double quick. So do not write off reefing from the cockpit as being slower-- For a single handed sailor that is.

For sure people who aren't used to leaving the cockpit when it's a bit bouncy may find it slower. Personally I find it a lot quicker tucking a slab into the race boat than using the single line on my dad's old boat. Both when alone on watch.
I highly commend the autopilot remote as well.....

 

[Dutch01527]

Can you explain why the hook on gooseneck is a pain when short handed? It may be an anomaly of that set up. Are you using spectacles? Are they the correct length for the boom/ sail? They need to take in to account how the sail sits on he boom when reefed. Our third reef spectacles were too short once all the roller cars were stacked in the track. We had to lengthen them to be able to hook the reef in easily.
We sail long distance short handed to the point that we don't wake off watch crew to reef or unreef. The process is done single handed without assistance regularly. Set up well it is no problem. Like most things, if it's set up badly they can go wrong quickly

Seriously? Letting go the tiller/wheel and leaving the cockpit as weather gets heavier is not ideal if avoidable, hooking and keeping hooked the horn whilst tensioning the halyard is fiddly. This is especially the case when already reefed and more reefs are needed - by definition the conditions would already be heavy.

I know it is possible and has been done for years but that does not mean that there is not a safety and quicker way. After al, for many years sails were reefed by sending men aloft. Not something most of us would want to return to.

 

[flaming]

Seriously? Letting go the tiller/wheel and leaving the cockpit as weather gets heavier is not ideal if avoidable,

Most boats have autopilots... The aversion to leaving the cockpit at sea amongst cruisers is quite interesting.

hooking and keeping hooked the horn whilst tensioning the halyard is fiddly. This is especially the case when already reefed and more reefs are needed - by definition the conditions would already be heavy.

Caribina type hook on a strop instead of an old style ramshorn solves that issue.

As said, single line reefing works well, and is a perfectly good solution for lots of people. It is not however without its drawbacks, and having sailed a lot of miles with it, and a lot of miles without it, on balance I don't think I'd bother fitting it myself.

 

[geem]

Seriously? Letting go the tiller/wheel and leaving the cockpit as weather gets heavier is not ideal if avoidable, hooking and keeping hooked the horn whilst tensioning the halyard is fiddly. This is especially the case when already reefed and more reefs are needed - by definition the conditions would already be heavy.

I know it is possible and has been done for years but that does not mean that there is not a safety and quicker way. After al, for many years sails were reefed by sending men aloft. Not something most of us would want to return to.

Let's be clear. If it was unsafe I would change it. If it wasn't efficient and easy to do, I would change it. When you are thinking of reefing, you are applying it to your view of reefing you boat, not mine. Reefing from the cockpit is something we don't want or need. I can see the need on other boats that may be smaller than mine. As you scale up, the need to reef from the cockpit becomes less relevant.
As booms get longer and masts taller, the amount of rope in the cockpit is massive.

I was recently delivering a 72ft racer cruiser from Sweden to Holland. That boat did all the reefing at the mast. It had the option to reef from the cockpit but rhe friction was huge even with hydraulic winches. In addition, the carbon moulded mainsail refused to come down without help at the mast.

 

[Stemar]

When I wanted a second reef on Jissel, I was very happy not to have to go forward - all the more so if you need the 3rd one (I only had two). I've not forgotten the time I was solo with the first reef in and I decided I wanted the second, so just put the head into the wind, let go the halliard, pulled in the reef and retensioned the halliard, all before the bow blew off, which isn't long on a Snapdragon.

Without, it would have meant starting the engine and setting the tillerpilot to hold us head to wind - no way would she stay anywhere close to head to wind without, making my way to the mast with the boat leaping around, playing with the lines and reefing hook and getting back to the cockpit.

It just involves an extra couple of coils hung up. Surely no sensible sailor leaves loose line on the cockpit floor.

Absolutely - and if I was busy, I'd just throw the extra string down the companionway until I had a moment to tidy up.

I get that on a larger boat the balance in favour of all lines aft changes; somewhere between almost essential, especially as one gets older, on <28' to "I'll just press this button to furl a bit of main" on 100'+, there's a range where the amount of string just gets too much and the boat's so much more stable. Then there's the fact that bigger boats tend to be single handed less often, and a spare body makes everything much easier.

BTW, I know plenty of smaller boats reef at the mast, and plenty of people single hand big boats - I'm talking about the average cruiser, not in the first flush of youth, perhaps, and solo or Mum and Dad on board. I know my wife was very reluctant for me to go forward when things got bumpy.

 

[Sailfree]

I see no point in having blocks in the boom as they just make for more friction. They do NOT add to the leverage as I set up a test rig on a bench & inserted a set of fishing scales in the system to prove otherwise.
If a line were to break at sea it would be impossible to rectify. A straight line could possibly be sorted if there was no obstruction within the boom.
As for the 3rd reef- I would suggest that it is not needed very often ( How often does one meet F9) so need not have single line. There are other ways, but they do need a trip forward.
As for comments about long lines in the cockpit i think that is irrelevant. It just involves an extra couple of coils hung up. Surely no sensible sailor leaves loose line on the cockpit floor.
View attachment 142985

I had this system on my Jeanneau43 for 1st and 2nd reef but due to length of line the 3rd reef only had the leech reefed and the luff required you to go to the mast to hook it on the goose neck (when conditions were worse).

Worked Ok for years on basis we reefed first in harbour and released reefs as conditions improved.

Came seriously unstuck when we set off knowing conditions were going to get worse.

On fully battened main it proved very difficult to reef in bad conditions as we had to motor into the wind to ease friction at mast due to sail forward thrust (yes I had Ruggerson ball race mast cars!).

As often when things go wrong other faults reveal themselves!! The length of time the sail was flapping caused the block shackles to come undone and swing dangerously in the cockpit (sail fitted by others!)

I reviewed this standard Jeanneau arrangement and decided the following:- 14mm reefing lines and blocks were oversized and caused too much friction - changed them all to 10mm lines and blocks. When I need the 3rd reef I would not be flying the spinnaker. So fitted an additional 3rd feef line solely to the luff and lead through a spinnaker clutch in the cockpit.

Result was an easier to use lower friction cockpit based single line reefing for reef 1 & 2 and cockpit based dual line reefing for reef 3.

One other advantage was that excessive friction in original system caused luff block (while initially set just above the boom - when tightening single reefing line enough to also pull down leech) was crushed against the boom and damaged .

 

[michael_w]

View attachment 142985

This is the arrangement on my Dehler 35 CWS. There are two reefs, Compared to 3 reefs, reef 1 is equivalent to 1.25 and reef 2 is about the same as reef 3. There is a horrendous amount of friction in the system, despite low friction rings on the clews. If it wasn''t for the power winches I doubt it would work.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

As usual, a single line reefing discussion focuses on friction. ... All ball bearing blocks both at the reef point and the mast foot; ...

Do you have ballbearing blocks at both the leach and luff reefing cringles? If so, is sail cloth wear an issue?

I have slab reefing on a 41' yacht, with all controls at the mast: pennant, kicker, topping lift and halyard. It works well, also lots of room to manage the process, no issues. However, I am moving into an efficiency phase of my life, and sailing handling may be upgraded (as well as davits). Hence interested in what you suggest.

 

[mattonthesea]

Agreed: meat and Poisson!

Standard luff cringles but with hand straps to help. Means can balance on deck, one hand in strap and other halyard. Fairly easy. If I feel uncomfortable then I clip to the mast. (Yes I know why I shouldn't ?)

If interpretation of weather is in the third reef range then we reef it earlier and leave genoa full. Easy to get that in and balance not affected.

But: Rival 32 with wide decks and relatively stable. And I like scampering on deck!