Not like the old days . . .

Searush said:
Too many people seem new to sailing & don't understand the old ways - where you taught yourself to sail or died like a gent in the attempt. When even e/sounders were fancy electrickery & boats were expected to leak & drip.

Now they all want everything perfect & no chance of getting into trouble. Knee deep in H&S at work they want it for security on the boat! :eek:


Please discuss; :D
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Nice post Steve...

I used to only employee 3 people now its 5.........

Whats the change

None except the good common sense that has been in place and understood bny all since starting the business has to be formalised.

The key is the act is for work and does not cover what you do at home or with your hobbies. The act is irrelevant in relation to anything you do in the confines of your own property or on your own boat but you do have a duty of care to your nearest human beings.

It is also a key part of the act that your employee carries similar reponsibilities

Is the problem that as a result of the protection in our working lives we now have the situation that people think that with even a small cheque book they can buy safely into a hobby without risk and training?

I think most sane people realise the need for more training be it formal or informal, self taught or drummed in by rote.

I speak as a person with no formal sailing training or certificates other than one I was given as a prococious teenager that allowed me to race with adullts on the municipal pond.
I then realised that shouting toot toot here I come and barging your way around the course with no regard to rules or regulations was quite normal......:rolleyes:

Most of the adults were very new to sailing, bought a boat, never had any formal training or experience thus litle commen sense.....

Some of the funniest days in my life, Nobody got hurt, nobody drowned, nobody new the rules...

Think the pond is drained now HSE blue green algae:D

Looking forward to swopping some more stories on the 7th.

Steve
 
"you missed out the READ SOME BOOKS bit".

Yes, books would have indeed helped. I sailed with my father for years but as he only ventured an hour up the coast and back or in Falmouth harbour I've realised he only had basic knowledge, couldn't navigate etc or even swim which is why he didn't venture far!
 
In my nautical book collection I have several tomes on sailing for beginers.They where written before the war and after.The best bit are the blow by blow accounts of "getting underway" in your 5 tonner or "Your first anchourage".If I recll the old Reeds almanac used to contain everything you needed to know.......
 
not like the old days

Sailed for 50 yrs,over 40,000 miles under the keel,having spent more hours than I care to remember poring over charts,tide tables,reeds etc while the boat was doing the equivalant of a scottish reel.How lovely nowadays to push a couple of buttons & up comes my lat & long.
If people want to go back to the old days so be it but for me the sheer simplicity & convenience of modern gizmos is wonderful & allows me to sit back in the cockpit & enjoy the sailing.
I was classed as being a pretty good navigator years ago,but I will never forget
crossing Biscay & calling up to the crew from the chart table "you should see the spanish coast in about 2 hrs.Only for the crew to say you had better come & look at this skip.Dead ahead & about a mile away were 300ft cliffs.
It took me many years to live that one down.;):confused::D
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
I learned under the tutelage of skilled sailors and the RYA scheme in the days before Decca became popular, but only just.
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When exactly were the days when Decca became popular? I'm thinking that there could only have been a couple of them. I remember once sailing in Sweden, according to the Decca. Not off the coast of Sweden, but in Sweden itself. It was a very clear day because you could see all the way to Mull, half a mile to port. Now we have computer race tactic software which suggests that the fastest way to Poole from Hurst is by road. Now that is inarguable.
 
I believe Decca worked well around the S Coast, but even on the other side of the Channel it struggled due to lack of French Stations - they never liked paying the licence fee to Decca. I suspect there may not have been many Scottish aerials either - but perhaps due to the geography rather than meanness as the fees would have been paid from the UK Exchequer.
 
gizmo's

The cruise that hooked me into yottin' was in 1953, when my wife and I and our six-month old daughter circumnavigated Sicily(starting and finishing in Malta) in an ex-nazi 30 sq metre yacht.
She was wooden, with wood mast and cotton sails. 30 feet loa and 21ft on the WL.
She had no engine. No WC, no water tanks (two jerricans), cooking by gimballed primus, a small foot-well type of cockpit, a large compass, sextant and appropriate tables. no chart table, in fact no table at all. No electrics. oil nav lights.
Daughter played in cockpit and slept in a karrikot between the bunks.
This was the happiest cruise of my long cruising experience.
The secrets of good seamanship and great happiness are the same. Manage without what you haven't got, and have modest expectations.
 
Biggest change I can see looking at the love liquid thingy thread is that it seems people actually believe weather forecasts now. How strange.....
 
Biggest change I see is that carrying a VHF and a smartphone and an Epirb encourages confidence yet seemingly precludes buying, carrying and learning to install spares, deal with breakages, set backs, time delays and marginal sailing conditions. Thinking 'digital precision' when dealing with wintry elements, intangibles, temperaments, human frailty and man-made products..

To wit. That LovinVortex had, in no particular order, a bit of a rush on,( maybe a YeeHaa rush too), overheating engine when it was needed, problems with the foresail, steering problems that needed outsourced brute force to straighten out,a seeming inability to set sails suitable for 'going passive' in horrendous conditions, even if such things were aboard, ...and, possibly an over-reliance on autopilot and one or two crew members and the magic words 'coded' and ££ thrown at the boat in order to get 'coding', with implicit seaworthiness added from the ££ spent that that implies... Which didn't actually materialise when put to the acid test, eh?

If nothing else I do hope the the recent and very public flogging of the boat and its operation by forum, press and jury may highlight some of these deceptions....
 
Nico said:
When exactly were the days when Decca became popular? I'm thinking that there could only have been a couple of them.
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1985-1990 or thereabouts when the AP Navigator started to become popular.
 
not like the old days

It seems to me that attitudes to sailing have changed,I took up sailing for the adventure the idea of crossing the channel was like a red rag to a bull it just had to be done,
Another reason was the danger, that really got the juices flowing,pitting yourself
against the elements was what it was all about,& still is.
I guess that modern life & H & S has meant that peoples attitudes have changed.Now people seem to sail to a schedule,or a strict timetable,
Many,s the time as a young man (with a young family)I have sailed our little 23 ft sloop into chichester harbour & arrived at the station just in time to get the 6-00am to london ready for a days work.
All these modern navigation aids (I love em) are to enable people to enjoy sailing more,& spend more time on their seamanship & boat handling,that,s the fun of sailing,instead a lot of people just want to drive the boat (engine on ) to get somewhere fast.Ah well each to his own I guess. Rant over;)
Fair winds & calm seas
Stilroaming.;)
 
Aha, I think maybe the finger of blame for "modern attitudes" is being pointed in the wrong direction!

The latest gadgets and devices in no way shape or form preclude good basic seamanship. GPS, chart plotters, radar etc, are navigational aids, not navigators.

The real problem is that most people in the modern world are rarely if ever exposed to risk, rarely if ever have to make decisions upon which their very life might depend and live in their normal daily lives in a cocooned world of air bags, RCD's, safety barriers, non-slip, don't go near the edge/water/fire world

They're used to jumping into their dealer serviced computer controlled BMW/Audi/Ford/Citroen (the last because that's what I've got :o), turning the key and driving wherever they want whenever they want concerned only by speed cameras and lurking traffic cops. They've never had to fix the bloody thing three times with a hammer, a monkey wrench and a screwdriver in the middle of winter in the wilds of Wales (it's a long story), in the extremely unlikely event that it goes wrong they call out the AA/RAC etc.

If the electrics trip at home, they call out an electrician. If a tap leaks, it's £60 in the pocket of the local plumber. If it goes wrong, it's in the bin and down to Tescos/Argos/Comet (!) for a new one ... and yes, I'm afraid even I'm guilty of that these days 'cos its rarely worth the cost of fixing things - not even big things like washing machines and so on

Inevitably, when such people find they have the money to indulge in the desire to own a yacht or a motorboat, there will be a tendency to assume that life on board will be much like life on land. Turn the key and hit it. Go where and when you want to go, not where and when weather and tide dictate. Assume that the world can be bent to your wishes, rather than you having to bend to what the big bad world delivers unto you (sometimes in big wet lumps)

I even see this amongst my own crew ... and if I'm entirely honest catch myself at it sometimes. OK, on the practical front my and my mate Rik are both professional engineers and very handy when it comes to the practical stuff. Any breakdown that defeats us is going to be a total failure beyond the resources it is feasible to carry on board to tackle

But the having to adapt plans to fit the weather has been a bone of contention at times it has to be said. I grew up reading, and continued to hoover up, anything and everything I could get my hands on to do with adventure and particularaly adventure under sail so my head was already fairly well wrapped around the idea that you've got to go with the flow and take it on the chin when the weather gods say "No, thou shalt not sail to the West old man, thou shalt put about and endure a rough passage back to whence thou departed". My crew on the other hand, still isn't entirely convinced as to why we couldn't go where we said we were going to go

I wonder if the skipper and crew of Vortex fell into the trap of simply feeling excessively secure in their own abilities, the capabilities of the boat and, above all, never having been exposed to the idea that the world might just one day try to kill them? It seems to me that it just didn't occur to the skipper that it might all go horribly wrong
 
On my last voyage from Plymouth to Galicia I took a cousin of my wife,it was a longish trip with light winds.Our equipment consisted of a compass,log and echo sounder and a sextant.Anyway we approched what ought to have ben somewher ajacent to Galicia.It was thick fogI reckoned we should be nearish to Coruña and as it turned out the following morning in bright sunshine there was the city before us,more or less.........a few months later he was invited by some Americans to sail to Gib from Vigo they had all the imaginable gizzmos all flickering away.Sometime later we met and he confessed that he found the trip from the uk much more of an adventure and offered a chance to actually be out there totally alone whilst on the American boat it was so conected and they knew where they were at the flickof a dial that he found the trip boring and lacking in any spice of life.
 
not like the old days.

about 5 yrs ago I was talked into taking 6 guys from the local sailing club for an
afternoon of cruising up the coast,As very often happens in the afternoon the wind got up & we were flying along very nicely in a force 6 with the odd gust of 7 ( she,s a 13 ton boat) after a couple of hours of this I decided a mug of tea would do me & a few of the crew the world of good,so backed the jib & hove to.
You would have thought I had just invented the wheel.
The sheer astonishment on some of the faces was a joy to behold,sitting in the cockpit with the wind turned off & the boat lying peaceful & quiet was unbelievable as far as they were concerned.
This was something I learned when I was about 10 yrs of age what do they teach them nowadays?
I was also dismayed to find that this was a long topic of conversation in the club later,so it was,nt just the few that I had on board.
I,m afraid one or two people went down in my estimation that day.
Or am I just an old fart who thinks that everyone should have this basic knowledge before going to sea. Stilroaming.:(:(
 
Trip hazard

I was on the pontoon at Kyle in June this year. The skipper (I presume) of a boat moored on the other side of the pontoon said to his son, on the three occasions I saw them go ashore, 'trip hazard!' as his son - maybe 10 or 11 - was about to step over the guardrail. He didn't bother saying it to his wife or daughter. Perhaps they'd have told him what a prat he was.
 
Retired in Crete said:
I do think that electrickery has taken some of the satisfaction out of sailing.

I can still vividly remember a voyage made over 40 years ago from Bembridge (I.O.W) to Lymington in thick fog. With only a compass and D.R I almost collided with the nav mark (is it "Jack in a basket"?) just outside Lymington. The thought of it still brings a smile to my face!

Now, I use the chart plotter to pick out the marina lights from the background town lights. A lot of the real challenge of navigation has been taken away.

John
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But should navigation be a challenge? I am pretty sure if Columbus or Cook had been offered GPS they would not have said "No-I prefer the traditional way." It is prudent to keep your log up to date when on passage, in case your magic box fails, but decrying modern kit is stupid. With that attitude we would still be using horses as mankinds chosen form of transport. The world is an ever changing place-reap the benifits and discard what is of no use.
 
laffinskip said:
I decided a mug of tea would do me & a few of the crew the world of good,so backed the jib & hove to.
You would have thought I had just invented the wheel.
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A couple of months ago I hove to to eat my lunch. While calmly stopped, a couple of boats altered course to pass close and look, in that way you do when you're not sure if somebody's alright or might need help (capsized dinghies, tiny fishing cockleshells with someone yanking the outboard, etc). Presumably they thought my sails looked funny and I wasn't moving, and therefore something might be wrong. I had to wave half a pasty at them in mock salute to show I was quite happy.

Bit worried as I go from long keel and mizzen to fin and two triangles, whether I'll lose the beautifully behaved "parked on the water" state I have available now.

Pete
 
Sidedrum said:
I was on the pontoon at Kyle in June this year. The skipper (I presume) of a boat moored on the other side of the pontoon said to his son, on the three occasions I saw them go ashore, 'trip hazard!' as his son - maybe 10 or 11 - was about to step over the guardrail. He didn't bother saying it to his wife or daughter. Perhaps they'd have told him what a prat he was.
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I know no more than you, but if I'd seen it I'd have assumed the child had impaired vision or some other disability and needed the information. The fact he didn't say anything to the other two persons and that he used a formulaic phrase rather than just "watch your step" suggests that something like this may be the explanation, rather than the H&S gone mad one.

I agree that if someone had said something like that to me when I was 10 I'd have got annoyed! But I do recall gentle reminders to mind my step, and two or three wettings when I didn't :o
 
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