Not boat share, not charter, but...

stewart

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How's this for an idea?

Chartering your boat gets you a contribution to your costs when you're not using your boat (which lets face it is most of the time) but you can end up with any ham-fisted fool using your boat and not looking after it. Not to mention having to market the boat, pay tax on the earnings and pay 25% of the income to the agency!

OK, so you don't want to charter but that boat is still sat there costing money and not being used most of the time so maybe getting someone in for a boat share scheme is the answer. But then you no longer own the boat and I'd think finance gets more complicated if you don't have clear title and you can't sell the boat easily etc. So how about a compromise between the two. You still own the boat but get someone who would normally be tempted to do a boat share but they don't need to find the capital but pay a higher proportion of the running costs.

Example:

A 45-50' boat might cost around £1,000 per day to charter in August in the med (or perhaps a bit less) and might cost say £25,000 per annum to keep, berth, repair, depreciation and finance. So how about offering say 40 days of use between April and October to someone for say £20,000, or maybe express it as a percentage of costs. The user now has a motive for looking after the boat, and it can be checked over at each handover. The user can also have access to it for a couple of weeks and many weekends over the summer and with good planning you can both use it when you want. It certainly costs them less than owning a boat (or chartering), and they don't have to find any capital and gives them virtually all the benefits of owning one. You get the income you want but without the negative aspects of chartering or boat share.

Does anyone do anything like this? Do you think it would work?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by stewart on 24/10/2002 22:16 (server time).</FONT></P>
 

NorthernWave

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I used to do something similar with my parents.
I bought the boat, they paid for half the moorings and all sevice costs. It worked well but I suspect that might have been because it was my olds.
Got a bigger boat now and they're not paying anymore!!!

Chris


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Deleted User YDKXO

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Well its certainly good for the other user. He gets virtually full use of your boat without any capital input and you have to stand the depreciation on a boat which is getting used twice as much as normal. A great deal for him, a lousy deal for you.
Depending on where you charter in the Med, you could get skippered day charter rather then weekly bareboat charter which means that, if he's any good, the skipper looks after your boat and you dont get strangers sleeping on it either plus, theoretically, you could get £40k instead of £20k income
 

stewart

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I think you're jumping to a rather rash conclusion there. It's not about being able to afford it but rather the frustration of having an assets sat there which is under used given the high proportion of fixed costs. I've maybe had 40 or 50 days on it this year but that still leaves an awful lot of days when it just sits there.
 

milltech

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I did once try to share..

I did once try to share a boat with a friend. I didn't want to do 50/50 because I felt if I needed the money I wouldn't want to have to agree a price with my boat partner first. I suggested that either he or I put up the money to buy it, and the other person would pay the equivalent in lost deposit account earnings into a boat fund. When (if) it was all spent each year we'd anti-up on a 50/50 basis.

He didn't like the idea so nothing happened, but I thought it would have worked. I suppose these days with current interest rates some other basis would be needed than deposit account returns. Perhaps return on a house of same value if rented.

It would provide a means of boat sharing whilst retaining the kind of flexibility an owner might need.

John
 

jfm

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Excellent idea. Finding a counterparty will be difficult because any form of sharing is a thin market, but an excellent idea.

However, I dont think your idea is anywhere near as good as sharing. First you say the other user gets use without having to invest capital. But why should he/she! Why not relieve yourself of the burden of investing capital, if you're going to deprive yourself of 100% use?

What are the negative aspects of sharing that you mention? I've done it loads of times and cant find any!

Finally your idea will not work taxwise. The fees from the other user will count as rental, hence taxable. So for purely tax reasons unfortunately, you are still better sharing than this kind of long term flexicharter
 

EME

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This sounds like capitulation, but I'm going backwards with my Boat Search.. The Monaco boat was 'Withdrawn from sale' last week as soon as I made an offer ( and I thought TCM said ALL boats are for sale... But more on that and my attempts to buy a non VAT(TVA) -paid French-leased boat mext week.

Where did you find your 'Boat Partners'? I see this becoming a very real possibility for us over the next few months...



...I wanna boat please..
 

yachtbits

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What I\'ve done..

A friend has a yacht that was very short on equipment. I have supplied the equipment needed to make it much more useable.

He owns the Yacht, I own the equipment, whoever empties the tank, fills it. I phone him to when I need it and it works quite well.

Additionally, the instruments I fitted are ones (Silva Star) we are agents for, so the yacht gets used as a demonstrator. Much better than a show room!

No ownership issues exist, but if the yacht gets sold, we will then sort out values and depreciation of any equipment that stays. Obviously trust needs to exist for this kind of arrangement.

kev


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jfm

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Learner, I found my 2 partners in MBY ad. They advertised, I replied. I works superbly, PROVIDED you (a) get the right partners, by which I mean you must all have a similar outlokk with regard to spending loads or little on the boat and loads of diy or zero diy, etc, etc, same philosophy I mean; and (b) you must yourself overcome the need to own the boat as your own boat and nobody else's, and just treat it as a pile of plastic crap that you have great fun on but not something to which you should get emotionally attached

But it is a very thin market, you will find it hard to find partners, and when you do you may find you're quite different, eg if you want a top spec boat maintained to perfection by pro boat yards, with the latest electronic kit upgraded often, say, you cannot share with a diyer who is financially strectched, imho. That's not complaining about either approach, it's just an obsrvation that you need to have similar approach to these fundamentals, imho. But if you get it right, it's perfect.

Sorry didn't bump into you last weekend in Juan les P - I was on TCM's boat the previous day but was very busy on the sunday and then had to catch flight. Next time I hope...
 

EME

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Thanks......I may well go th same route.

I think you've identified each and evry dilemna that we face. Apart from where the boat should be berthed we still vacillate a little although S48 has not been questioned by TB for 2 months!

If it hadn't been for the folks on this forum , I don't think we'd have ever really worked out what we wanted. However we now know that we are faced with ownership of an expensive 2 berth day boat ( we really would have preferred 4) , ot looking outside our price range in the full knowledge that we will not ALWAYS be on the boat....hence the shared ownership possibility.

Sorry we missed you , next time you're down I'll buy a beer. I'm nearly always there on weekends although not this week as my leg is strapped up.

Both TB and I had an absolutely superb time , haven't spoken to TCM or Mrs TCM since but I'm still laughing. Great Day , Great Company.
I have been 'hors de combat' since that day but I'm saving the how and why for his return.

...I wanna boat please..
 
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