Not a legal requirement after all!

[BrendanS]

That hoary old subject - Solas V and radar reflectors.

After a discussion on the subject on PBO a little while ago, that involved looking at Solas regs in detail, it seems there is a little anomaly in the MCA and RYA advice in leaflets and on their internet sites. I popped an email off to the MCA and they have confirmed. You only legally have to carry a radar reflector if your boat was built after Solas V came into effect.

Response from MCA:

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I am contacting you in reply to your email to our infoLine dated 19 June concerning radar reflectors, our leaflet and SOLAS Chapter V. I apologize for the delay in getting back to you but this query has only recently been passed to me.

You are correct in saying that the revised SOLAS Chapter V Regulations state that only new vessels should carry radar reflectors. At the time the MCA leaflet was produced it was felt that the advise that the agency should be giving out to the public should state that all pleasure vessels wherever possible should try to fit radar reflectors. This has not changed, so while there is no legal requirement for vessels built before 1 July 2002 to fit radar reflectors the advice from the MCA is that they should fit a reflector if at all possible.

I apologize for any confusion that the wording in the leaflet may have caused, and hope that this has answered your query. If you have any further questions on this point or any other queries on radio or navigation please do not hesitate to contact me

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[Happy1]

Surely the rules were made to make things safer, does it mean that you are less important if your boat was built after 2nd July 2002. Seems daft to me to worry about a date, being seen is more important, although some of the reflectors on the market seem to have had a lot of stick for not doing what they are claimed to do.

I have a folding reflector that I will use in cases of emergency, it's not practical to have one as a permanent fixture on my little boat, but I have peace of mind that it can be deployed if necessary and only cost £20 or so.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[BrendanS]

I'm not commenting on whether it's right or wrong to carry one, just pointing out that it's not after all a legal requirement

Do a search on 'Solas Radar Reflector' in all forums over last year. Some people were not happy at the idea of it being legally enforceable to carry something which all the tests to date have shown to be of dubious worth.

The required m2 to make them actually work means you couldn't carry one on a boat of much below 40' anyway, so they diluted it down to a lesser size anyway.

It's interesting that out of all the different types, the cheapo octahedral works best of all. One very good US test I saw suggested that the much touted 'rain catcher' position isn't the best, this honour is held for the 'double rain catcher'

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[Twister_Ken]

Editors please

The question of the performance (or not) of the various heavily touted radar reflectors does seem to be something which one or other of IPC's magnificent organs should address. To promote a reflector which works well until it is subjected to a few degrees of heel almost seems like misrepresentation in a sailing magazine.

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[BrendanS]

Re: Editors please

Have a look at this test. Quite good, though several years old now <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/radar_reflector_test.htm>http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/radar_reflector_test.htm</A>

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[Twister_Ken]

Re: Editors please

Brendan - yeah I've seen that report. What worries me about it is that is a lab test. What would be good is a real life test. Ship with radar at sea. Bunch of identical boats, one 'naked', rest with different types and sizes of reflector. Sail'em past the ship at 10 miles and 5 miles range on a dark and stormy night. See what gets seen best. Would need to get Sunsail to contribute their fleet of 37s to the exercise. Get the navy to chuck in a coastal minesweeper. Should be possible midwinter, somewhere south of the Nab Tower.



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[BrendanS]

Re: Editors please

Agree with what you're saying, it needs doing,

However this sort of lab test does show how some of the more expensive makes are bleedin useless in a lab, with even a small amount of heel on. Doesn't instill confidence in them working in a real life situation.

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[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Editors please

aye
but in jimis boat we had parahandy's boat at all angles to the radar and never picked his reflector up
at one point a boat went past para's we picked that up no problem but not seeing para so we knw the radsar was not in a shadow.

bottom line
your odds probably improve witha reflector but it not a racing cert you'll be picked up.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[Sybarite]

I have a cylindrical one fixed to the side of my mast and know that it works because a ship sounded its horn in thick fog in the traffic lanes of Ushant when I didn't see it.

I previously had a folding one which I put up for good measure until a stong gust carried it away. However I remember reading a test many years ago that when one of these was mounted with its point in the air it only had about 5-10% of its potential efficiency. Most people however seem to put them up this way.

John

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[jimi]

I'm thinking it might be good to have two reflectors (i know I've posted on this before) of different types and at diffent heights to potentially maximise their best bits and minimise the bad bits (to use techie speak).

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[Boathook]

Re: Editors please

Didn't PBO do an article on radar reflectors a year ago or so or was it the competitor Sailing Today.

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[Andrew_Bray]

An Editor replies

This is something we do look at from time to time, especially when new models are introduced, and perhaps it is time we looked at it again, especially in view of the two yachts run down in the Channel in fog in May (big feature in August YW, on sale next Thursday 10 July). In our previous tests (this is with both YM and YW) there were only two certainties. One was that the results where very inconsistent and the second was that the bigger the better.

In the last YW test which covered everything from basic octahedral to Firdells and lots in between, there was no discernable difference between the bare boat and the boat with any reflector. Earlier YM tests had been more conclusive and the one reflector that stood head and shoulders above the rest was the Umbrawin. This was developed for use on airborne lifeboats during WW2 and opens and closes like an umbrella and uses an aluminium coated mesh as the reflective surface. When open it forms an octahedral around 1.5 metres across.

The only trouble is that it was only designed for one use and after repeated uses all the aluminium fell off.

Maybe the answer lies in active transponders? Anyone got experience of these (not SARTs)?

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[bedouin]

Ahh but then you might end up getting the worse points of both and the better points of neither

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[jimi]

Piers, it would'nt be the first time and I'm damn sure it wo'nt be the last!

Jim



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[Observer]

Re: An Editor replies

>answer lies in active transponders>

This sounds attractive but if a large number of small pleasure craft started using them in a busy area (e.g. the Solent) wouldn't radar screens be full of contacts which would make the whole picture unintelligible? And possibly become a hazard to shipping?

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[bob_tyler]

Re: Editors please

Yes it was in PBO. If I remember rightly, a bundle of kitchen foil was the most effective!!

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