Not a great day

[hlb]

Yep, Rafiki is parked backwards onto a finger pontoon. The 'thruster is invaluable to me, especially with any breeze.

You just wont listen, will you. I've never said that you should not get a BT.

I've said that you will need one to back into a finger pontoon.

But only about five times in my life, have I ever needed to back in. Thats after visiting, just about every marina on the South coast, The CI's, France, The West coast, Ireland, Scotland and the IOM.

The reason.

Boats dont like backing into finger berths, even with a BT. They also dont like driving out, but much preffer to back out. It's all to do with the pointy bits and the fat bit's, not forgetting the V shaped ends of some finger berths.

The secret to boat handling, is to do what the boat wants to do and dont try to fight it. Especially a twin shaft driven boat, will do the most amazing manuvers, but again, you have to do it the way the boat likes it, try to fight it and your on a looser.

 

[Bathdave]

Phew ...thought it was just me!!

As a newbie whose still getting the hang of our Maxum, I still have some trepidation as I approach our finger pontoon, between two long RIBs with jutting out outboards with props sitting there below fender height! Had a few 'go arounds' (so pilots can do it as well as skippers) and managed to get in. Had the kids over staying this weekend (fabulous boating weather in Jersey) and freaked them out a little bit with the tensions of parking. Caused considerable post docking mirth amongst family at my stern command ' turn you bitch' as wind was propelling me towards a row of sterns on my second go around.

So it gave me some relief to read some of the posts in this thread to my family to make it clear to them that it is harder than it looks. SWMBO is still counselling me to resist temptation to say in a loud voice 'that was pretty good wasn't it' when I do get it right though in case my increasing skills get mistaken for beginners luck.

Ps RIBs don't seem to use fenders so I guess that makes it okay to see it as one big fender?

 

[lisilou]

IMHO on a MOBO less than 40' in normal conditions with Twin Engines + use of the Bow thruster=

However I must admit there have been occasions in very high winds when I might argue with my statement, use only when really needed or when you have cocked up. So many times that I have entered a lock in calm conditions do I hear the BT being used more than the engines. Why don't people practice & learn the skill of controlling their boat properly without the BT. High winds fine

I use the BT if and whenever I need to. I don't rely on it particularly but reversing into our berth as we HAVE to, it is nearly always used. Ours is 36ft with twin engines and yes, she is fairly easy to manoeveur in relatively calm conditions. That said, if using the BT makes life less stressful for some regardless of conditions, then why not use it. I don't understand why people frown upon their so called 'unnecessary' use tbh. No biggy surely??
L

 

[hlb]

The thing I always enjoyed about boating, was the parking up and leaving, after pressing auto, it was all a bit boreing, till the other end.

My P35 (42 ft over all, on shaftsl) was a joy to handle, she'd do anything you asked, but of course, only in the way that she was capable of.

Took her up to Glasson dock in Lancashire, to meet up with many friends we had on the canal. (Yep a long way from Plymouth) They all thought she was the QE2 and wanted a ride.

Once loaded, folk kept pushing her off the dock, I kept pushing her back, saying please dont help.

Once back along sides, there was a mighty roar, as MF used her power to take her stern clear out. The crowd were in aw. Actually, more than a few said Sh#t.

We toddled round the basin, the lock being closed, gently coming along sides other boats, for other folk to get on, or pointing towards points of interest, yep, just a few inches off.

Reporter in the club mag said. MF had thrusters in every direction.

I emailed her and told her that she had none.

So came the embarassing apology the next month..



So if you want to moor stern to, it's up to you. But marinas should give you the option.

It's a horrible way to get into, or out of.

 

[Switch]

I went out on Saturday from Portsmouth to Lymington; I hesitated about going because of the high winds but went anyway. Although the Solent was very messy and berthing at Lymington was a bit hairy, it went to plan. In the end I'm glad I went. It is these trips that you really learn the most about your boat and your own capabilities.

 

[rafiki_]

You just wont listen, will you. I've never said that you should not get a BT.

I've said that you will need one to back into a finger pontoon.

But only about five times in my life, have I ever needed to back in. Thats after visiting, just about every marina on the South coast, The CI's, France, The West coast, Ireland, Scotland and the IOM.

The reason.

Boats dont like backing into finger berths, even with a BT. They also dont like driving out, but much preffer to back out. It's all to do with the pointy bits and the fat bit's, not forgetting the V shaped ends of some finger berths.

The secret to boat handling, is to do what the boat wants to do and dont try to fight it. Especially a twin shaft driven boat, will do the most amazing manuvers, but again, you have to do it the way the boat likes it, try to fight it and your on a looser.

Haydn, I love your posts, and am looking forward to your "HLB's definitive guide to nautical terms."

However, on my pontoon, I have to reverse in, or I would never get SWMBO on board, as she would refuse to mountaineer along the side. The pain of reversing is worth it for me. We don't all have the pleasure of owning a P35 on twin shafts, we have what we have, and live with the limitations accordingly. Raf is very easy to twist and turn on her twin drives, but for parking, and controlling in a lock, I rely on the 'thruster. I am currently dreaming of a P360, but have business and location issues to resolve first. Meantime I love Rafiki to bits!

Perhaps we could move pontoons, but we like where we are for a number of other reasons.

 

[Solitaire]

Haydn, I love your posts, and am looking forward to your "HLB's definitive guide to nautical terms."

However, on my pontoon, I have to reverse in, or I would never get SWMBO on board, as she would refuse to mountaineer along the side. The pain of reversing is worth it for me. We don't all have the pleasure of owning a P35 on twin shafts, we have what we have, and live with the limitations accordingly. Raf is very easy to twist and turn on her twin drives, but for parking, and controlling in a lock, I rely on the 'thruster. I am currently dreaming of a P360, but have business and location issues to resolve first. Meantime I love Rafiki to bits!

Perhaps we could move pontoons, but we like where we are for a number of other reasons.

Thank the lord HLB is not an instructor! I have never read so much BS in my life. How do you think all the boats in the med moor up? If it was that difficult they would all be moored bows in and then of course, nobody would get off!

I do agree with him ( and there is other points I agree with him on) in so far as letting the boat give you a hint as too what it wants to do, but as to not reversing into a berth because the boat does not like it is absolute carp! in fact reversing into the wind is simple, the boat will stay square as the wind goes evenly down it each side. Going into the wind bows in will prove more of a problem as the wind gets either side of the bow! The wind can be your friend if you know what it's doing, but don't make the mistake of saying "it worked fine this way last time, so I'll do the same again" Every mooring situation is different - APE! Asess, Plan, Execute! Oh and then we need to consider the tide.

Mind you HLB also says you don't need to use the helm on a shaft drive twin. Hah, another myth!

I have no doubt that HLB handles (or did) his boat impeccable, but don't belive all he says!

 

[hlb]

Thank the lord HLB is not an instructor! I have never read so much BS in my life. How do you think all the boats in the med moor up? If it was that difficult they would all be moored bows in and then of course, nobody would get off!

I do agree with him ( and there is other points I agree with him on) in so far as letting the boat give you a hint as too what it wants to do, but as to not reversing into a berth because the boat does not like it is absolute carp! in fact reversing into the wind is simple, the boat will stay square as the wind goes evenly down it each side. Going into the wind bows in will prove more of a problem as the wind gets either side of the bow! The wind can be your friend if you know what it's doing, but don't make the mistake of saying "it worked fine this way last time, so I'll do the same again" Every mooring situation is different - APE! Asess, Plan, Execute! Oh and then we need to consider the tide.

Mind you HLB also says you don't need to use the helm on a shaft drive twin. Hah, another myth!

I have no doubt that HLB handles (or did) his boat impeccable, but don't belive all he says!

Just where have I said, that you can not moor stern to??

I have said, that it's much easier, to drive in and back out. Of course if you then can not get off, it's fairly pointless. is it not

In my berth in Plymouth, I'd occasionly turn the boat round to wash the other side. Catch then was, it was nearly impossible to get out in a forwards direction, where as in reverse, it was simple.

My posts are about, how to handle a boat easily and with little stress, if you cant or dont want to do it that way, then you just have to take the more difficult options.

On the point of not using the wheel. I can only speak of my P35, but I never used the wheel, in fact I nearly never used the wheel at all, it was engines, then auto pilot, even on narrow rivers.

Yes I could have used the wheel and turned a few micro seconds faster, but why bother and why take my two hands off the two throttles, to prat about with the wheel.

Erm. I have actually taught an instructor on twin shaft boats. He agreed, that at least with mine, it was fairly pointless to use the wheel. Now if I was going in for the olympics, I may use the wheel, but I'm not and I'm presuming other folk on here, just want an easy life, that is what my posts are aimed at.

My view is, and has always been, the less time you spend fannying around with stuff that aint going to make much difference, the more you can concentrate on the job in hand.

It offends me and does the other members here no service, nor does it help your own credibility, when you say, what I said was a myth.

can not speak of them all, but my boat would turn on a sixpence, without touching the wheel. Your obviously short of experience.

 

[rafiki_]

For close quarters manouevering, I do not use the steering wheel, just the drives, and the 'thruster, and take things as sloooowly as possible. I guess that we all find out what works best for us and our boats with a bit of practice.

There is probably no one right way or one wrong way.

I am quite happy reversing Raf into her berth, but when the wind is across her bows, I might need to have a couple of goes before I get it right. I have learned, over time, even when people are smirking at the first failure, just to ignore and carry on.

 

[LittleShip]

Right lets talk about maneuvering Little Ship in close quarters........

One engine, one large prop and one large rudder........... Back into a berth you must be joking. I have prop wash to starboard that some would think is a stern thruster. It took me a couple of years to get the hang of her foibles.

Add to this windage and ... well lets just say she can be a challenge.

Boy there have been times when I would have sold a kidney for a Bow Thruster.

Tom

 

[Resolution]

Boats dont like backing into finger berths, even with a BT. They also dont like driving out, but much preffer to back out. It's all to do with the pointy bits and the fat bit's, not forgetting the V shaped ends of some finger berths.

.

Can you enlarge on this please? I appreciate that some manoeuvres are easier going ahead than astern, and vice-versa. But why should the same route to/from your berth be easier going in ahead and out astern?

 

[rafiki_]

Right lets talk about maneuvering Little Ship in close quarters........

One engine, one large prop and one large rudder........... Back into a berth you must be joking. I have prop wash to starboard that some would think is a stern thruster. It took me a couple of years to get the hang of her foibles.

Add to this windage and ... well lets just say she can be a challenge.

Boy there have been times when I would have sold a kidney for a Bow Thruster.

Tom

Tom, not such good sales patter.

 

[hlb]

Can you enlarge on this please? I appreciate that some manoeuvres are easier going ahead than astern, and vice-versa. But why should the same route to/from your berth be easier going in ahead and out astern?

I'll try.

Going forwards into a berth, you can put the boat just where you want to, even without a BT. A boat has all it's stearing on the back end, so you need a fair amout of open water to stear whether with rudder or engines. If you back in, you emmediatly run out of stearing, because the back end is restricted by the pontoon or boat next to you.

Coming out, the reverse is true. As you back out, the stern is very quickly in open water, so you can start to turn much sooner, also, because the bow is pointed, you can pivot round on it, without the fear of it hitting anything.. With a big round fender on it, you can use it to push the back end out.

Think of it like a car, except the car now has the steering on the back, so you would do all your parking the opposit way about.

With a car, you cant actually reverse away from the kerb, without the front wheels going on the footpath.

So with a boat, you cant drive away from a pontoon, without the stern bashing the pontoon. If the pontoon was long enough and particularly with a strong wind against you, you would bash along all day and never get away.

 

[LittleShip]

Tom, not such good sales patter.

Hmmm ........... maybe not but well lets say true

Tom

 

[hlb]

So, to carry on, the problem with driving out, is, you have to get your Boat (in my case 42 FT) past the next boat (of whatever length) before you can begin to turn. Dependant on wind, that can lead you into a difficult or dangerous situation, as you may well be very close to the opposit boats. Once down wind, there is little you can do to avoid a colision.

So in a fairway, always make sure, you are on the upwind side, once gone to far down wind, you will not recover.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

So, to carry on, the problem with driving out, is, you have to get your Boat (in my case 42 FT) past the next boat (of whatever length) before you can begin to turn. Dependant on wind, that can lead you into a difficult or dangerous situation, as you may well be very close to the opposit boats. Once down wind, there is little you can do to avoid a colision.

So in a fairway, always make sure, you are on the upwind side, once gone to far down wind, you will not recover.

Try adding a couple of sails and a dirty great keel to the mix.
Then stir in a tiny prop and rudder (assuming you have a motor of course).

 

[hlb]

The most infuriating thing in this thread, is when some so called expert, tells you, it's imposible and makes a joke of what you have been doing, for over twenty years.

If some folk still think I have a thing against BT's,

This was my wifes boat and it needed it.