NON BOATY Qu about condensate drain from new boiler

[VicS]

My neighbour recently had a new CH boiler installed.

The condensate drain falls vertically on the outside wall about a metre or so then runs nearly horizontally for about 4½m. I reckon the fall in this section is less than 10cm

Isn't this likely to freeze if we get some seriously cold weather?

Even if thats Ok I noticed more recently that there a funny little raised bit on the end.

That surely is going to trap water which will freeze ?

Wondering whether to mind my own or let her know of my concerns.

 

[Mel]

I think you are correct
I just looked up the topic and it is clear that the external pipe should not be longer than 3m and insulation is advised. The final fitting will cause some trap of water liable to freezing. A quite word to get next door to query it with the installer would be a kind gesture

see this link as a guide
http://www.snipef.org/downloads/Building Regulations (Scotland)- Condensing Boilers.pdf

 

[VicMallows]

The condensate drain falls vertically on the outside wall about a metre or so then runs nearly horizontally for about 4½m.

It is certainly inelegant! 4.5m ... surely there is a better solution? At least though it appears to be in 38mm pipe which is generally accepted as adequate where there is a risk of freezing. (It is when 22mm is used outside that freezing problems are rife).

Certainly that abomination at the end will cause trouble. I would also be questioning if the drain is suitable for the acid discharges.

Only you can judge whether you should MYOB

 

[saltylegs]

All external condensate drains should "be as short as possible" and well insulated.
Differing boiler makers give differing recommended lengths for the maximum run.

 

[prv]

Definitely prone to freezing. I remember a few years ago we had the first cold winter after a number of mild ones, and suddenly loads of people at work were having boiler trouble as their condensate drains froze up.

(I had a condensing boiler fitted last year, and arranged for the drain to go into the waste pipe from the downstairs loo basin.)

Pete

 

[catmandoo]

fit a tun dish and if pipe blocks then drain will bypass pipe and run to ground

 

[Giblets]

Definitely a cowboy job. It looks like the white pipe is not even connected into the black pipe. BTW the black pipe looks like a rainwater pipe not a waste/soil pipe. Condensate drains are not permitted to be connected into r/w pipes unless they go to main drainage.

I would suggest your neighbour gets the installer back and get him to do the job properly or contact Gas Safe for a free inspection of the job.

 

[blackbeard]

I have one of these boilers, and yes, it's a pain. The pipe draining the condensate goes outside the house and into the drain pipe which carries water from the roof. I have insulated both the condensate pipe and the drain pipe, I'm a bit concerned that the drain pipe gets a lot of ice in it but it hasn't blocked - yet. (The ice comes mainly from snow melting on the roof I think.)
The pipe as originally installed had no insulation and yes, it froze.
Was interested to see the recommendation to send the condensate down the waste pipe, with the join still inside the house. Seems a much better way of doing things.

 

[VicS]

Definitely a cowboy job. It looks like the white pipe is not even connected into the black pipe. BTW the black pipe looks like a rainwater pipe not a waste/soil pipe. Condensate drains are not permitted to be connected into r/w pipes unless they go to main drainage.

I would suggest your neighbour gets the installer back and get him to do the job properly or contact Gas Safe for a free inspection of the job.

Interesting that you should suggest a cowboy job. The installer did not seem to have the usual van with company name etc. Just worked from a car IIRC.

The black pipe is the rainwater down pipe from the garage roof. The original would have been at the back end of the garage and going to a soakaway in the garden. This one is at the front so I've no idea where it goes. Not near the mains drainage so probably to a new soakaway in the front garden.
I have an idea that the downpipe was adrift when the boiler was fitted because someone else was there reconnecting it a few days later. I suspect the end bit of the condensate drain was aimed down into the drain initially and that the "drainpipe fitter" turned it out of his way in order to refit the downpipe.

Getting a Gas Safe inspection might be a sensible way forward. Somebody independent and with some authority would be able tell the relevant party or parties just what needs to be done

I don't normally have much to do with her. She did become slightly friendly with SWMBO when she first moved there but I dont think they had much in common.

 

[maxi77]

Having just had a new boiler fitted and had long discussions with my properly registered installer that pipe is possibly illegal, the condensate is not plain water but rather nasty and should not be allowed to just drain onto the path, and yes it will freeze. Mine is fully internal for that reason and goes straight into the drainage system. It needs to be done properly

 

[Bilgediver]

My neighbour recently had a new CH boiler installed.

The condensate drain falls vertically on the outside wall about a metre or so then runs nearly horizontally for about 4½m. I reckon the fall in this section is less than 10cm

Isn't this likely to freeze if we get some seriously cold weather?

Even if thats Ok I noticed more recently that there a funny little raised bit on the end.

That surely is going to trap water which will freeze ?

Wondering whether to mind my own or let her know of my concerns.

]

I would say at least be a good samaritan and turn the end fitting so there is no trapped water. The chances are
it is unglued and push fit.

Seems the fitter decided to go this way rather then lift enough of the paving blocks to fit a vertical pipe down the wall and thenaway to a point about 1 meter out from the wall...

 

[rbcoomer]

Look on the brightside - a few years and all the weeds around the outlet will be gone! The water is indeed acidic and quite nasty. Almost everyone I've known who's had one of these condensing boilers has had grief and I know of three that were replaced at around 5 years. I dread the day our ageing boiler gives up - perhaps not as efficient, but apart from a clean and bi-annual flush/refill of radiators the only repairs have been a few new pumps. Can't help but wonder how many new ones will still be going in 20 years?

 

[Moonshining]

My parents had one fitted with a similar run (less the odd bit at the end). My mum's quite, erm, fierce. She tore them off a massive strip the first time it froze and they came back with their tails between their legs and replaced it with an insulated vertical pipe going straight down into a soakaway.

 

[saltylegs]

Look on the brightside - a few years and all the weeds around the outlet will be gone! The water is indeed acidic and quite nasty. Almost everyone I've known who's had one of these condensing boilers has had grief and I know of three that were replaced at around 5 years. I dread the day our ageing boiler gives up - perhaps not as efficient, but apart from a clean and bi-annual flush/refill of radiators the only repairs have been a few new pumps. Can't help but wonder how many new ones will still be going in 20 years?

I replaced my last one, last year after 17 years good service, and it had a 2.5 metre external drain unisulated (do as I say not as I do) that never froze.
I only changed it as I was rebuilding the kitchen and took the opportunity to upgrade.

 

[savageseadog]

Hundreds of thousands of those drains froze up the last couple of winters, many will have been poor installations, probably complacency due to the many previous mild winters.

What on earth do they use in normally cold countries?

 

[VicS]

What on earth do they use in normally cold countries?

Internal drainage systems!

Maybe not stupid condensing boilers.

 

[Giblets]

Hundreds of thousands of those drains froze up the last couple of winters, many will have been poor installations, probably complacency due to the many previous mild winters.

What on earth do they use in normally cold countries?

Same type of boilers but the condensate pipework is not allowed to run externally. Most colder countries do not have external S&W pipework anyway.

 

[SailorBill]

Hundreds of thousands of those drains froze up the last couple of winters, many will have been poor installations, probably complacency due to the many previous mild winters.

What on earth do they use in normally cold countries?

Intelligence.

 

[rbcoomer]

I replaced my last one, last year after 17 years good service, and it had a 2.5 metre external drain unisulated (do as I say not as I do) that never froze.
I only changed it as I was rebuilding the kitchen and took the opportunity to upgrade.

I hope your new one lasts as well!

To be fair, most issues I've heard of or seen seem to have been failed and obsolete parts or issues due to poor installation. I guess this is a consequence of changing technology and sadly improving efficiency invariably seems to involve some overly complex and more fickle design.

I went to look at one for a friend a few years back as she couldn't afford to fix and wanted an idea of repair cost. I should state that I'm not a gas installer and whilst I wouldn't touch any part of the gas aspects, I am competent with both electrical and electronics so agreed to look and see if I could determine what was wrong and ensure she wasn't missing anything obvious. What I found horrified me as her house was a new build when she moved in and the installation was only around 30M old. Firstly, the vent pipe had been 'modified' around an odd corner and actually sloped downhill through the wall to the boiler! Over time, rainwater appears to have seeped into the system - rusting parts to a state that I'd say was dangerous. There was an electrical earth in the boiler that was in place but not done up and the electrical supply was pulled tight around the CH return pipe (T&E not FP) and had gone brown with heat! There were a couple of other minor issues I think, but can't recall the details. Her lack of heating was due to a faulty sensor, but my dilemma was that I couldn't fix that and effectively re-commission what was (IMHO) a dangerous installation. She did understand and took it up with the body that oversees new builds - accompanied by my findings. It was eventually fixed via a household insurance policy I think and they were aiming to recover costs from some building scheme or other. It was a shock to me that a professional installer could leave it in this state and even more so that seemingly nobody had checked? It was quite a large development and as far as know, they did them all. I understood that preventing this was the whole point of the Corgi scheme?

Thus the extra long pipe, lack of connection to drain and upward facing bit on the end in the OP's post don't actually surprise me in the slightest!

 

[savageseadog]

I hope your new one lasts as well! It was a shock to me that a professional installer could leave it in this state and even more so that seemingly nobody had checked? It was quite a large development and as far as know, they did them all. I understood that preventing this was the whole point of the Corgi scheme?

Thus the extra long pipe, lack of connection to drain and upward facing bit on the end in the OP's post don't actually surprise me in the slightest!

Don't be shocked. There is a Law Society and lots of bent solicitors, a BMA and lots of incompetent doctors. "Profession" is a much abused word and many "professionals" fail to be, and that includes Corgi plumbers.