No more Cobra

[mr_williams]

Howdy,

thanks to all that have responded to my first post for information. I really, really appreciate it.

Well the owner told me today that the boat is sold, so I did not even get a look at her... which is a great shame...


Let me open the question to everyone as I am so confused about what to be looking for...

I am a complete novice sailor with only lake sailing experience. I want a boat that I can learn on and sail single handed eventually, I want to be able to make the odd passage to France etc, given the attainment of certain qualifications and experience... Speed is not real important, compared to stability and safety... And I would like it to be able to sleep a family of 4, so probable 24+ feet in size.

I was looking to spend around 5K for this my first little girl. I love DIY so even if you think I could find a run down version, please suggest what you think.

Cheers all for your time.

 

[Guest]

Snapdragon 21 / 23 ... well below that price
Snapdragon 24 ... even a 26 if you look around
Westerly Pageant (few at this low price but possible)
IP24
Itchen Ferry
Searider 24
Jag 22 ..... maybe touch small


5K is a bit limiting at this size as it will mean older limited headroom boats. As the headroom approaches full standing ~ 5' 10" + .... the price goes up !

The above list is just a few of the names that pop to mind ....

Well worth picking up a copy of Boats For Sale under 10,000 mag and scan through ... gives a good idea of whats out there .....

Take a few days wandering around boatyards ... brokers are not so useful in this price range - most can't be bothered to handle these ... so most are private sales.

Good luck ...

 

[Dipper]

There should still be plenty of Cobra 750s around. You may also want to consider the Hurley 24/70. There is one for sale here just above your price limit. There was a good write up in PBO in 2002 (you know how to download these from this web site /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif).

 

[Windy]

I think a Vivacity 24 would serve your needs.
I have one, i'm near 6 ft and find the headroom sufficient plus it sails quite well, mine is the fin keel version

 

[mr_williams]

Cheers you guys,

I know there are a few more Cobra's around, but it would appear they are a little out of my price range with the average price being around 9.5K... I still really like the Cobra... and will give it a month or 2 to see if one pops up over the winter...

I do get all the magazines, so I am seeing a lot of boats that appear to be the right price, I guess it's just finding the time to research them all and then try and get feedback from you guys that know your stuff...

I just thought I might be able to shorten the list quickly by getting some feedback first.


Cheers for the lists so far as well as the link Dipper... I will keep hunting this down..

Please keep the suggestions coming.

I appreciate everyones time.

 

[asj1]

One point to bear in mind 'where are you going to keep it?'.
One reason why small fin keeled boats are so cheap is that no one wants them due to the high cost of mooring.
Cheap moorings tend to be those that dry out typically 'half-tide' moorings which are no good for fin keel boats. 'Full tide' moorings or marinas are obviously fine for fin keel boats but cost a lot more. Once potential purchasers realise these costs they tend to run away from small fin keel boats and buy lifting keel or bilge keel boats or decide that if they can afford the running costs then they might as well get a loan and buy a bigger fin keeled boat.

 

[Dyflin]

A few builders who produced boats of your size & budget would include:
Leisure
Hurley
Hunter

All worth a look over the forthcoming winter months

 

[FullCircle]

I wish you well in your quest.
However, word of caution (not a hell fire and damnation).......

You have little experience of baots, and I make a broad assumption that you have no idea about refurbishment costs either.
As one who has done rubbish boats for nearly 20 years, think about these for a 25 footer ...

Sails: New 1200 quid, secondhand 400 quid
Engine: New 3k, used 1300 quid, inboard.
Outboard: New 1k, secondhand 500 quid
Instruments: Cheap New 400 quid, used 200 quid
Headlining replace 300 quid
Cushions: Covers 200 quid DIY, Foam 350 quid DIY
Winches, deck fittings overhaul, 150-200 quid
Windows replacement 200 quid
Sundries, God knows where the money goes, but it does.

Can only suggest first boat is fully formed so you can go sailing, not mong about in the yard for 2 years. Remember, a boat is for sailing, not alienating SWMBO/Kids with infeasible projects.

Therefore: Sort out your mooring nice and cheap, and then buy a boat that fits it until your budget changes.

very best of luck

Jim
PS if you are on the East Coast, I know of a few moorings, and boats to go on 'em.

 

[mr_williams]

Thanks you guys and thanks Jim for the list.

I have taken the DIY project aspect into consideration, and when I say I am after a project, I don't mean I am looking for a hull /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Agreed that I need to just get something that I can go sailing in, but I also want something I can learn on, like pulling the engine apart to boost my knowledge of marine motors... redo the interior to a degree, just work out what i like and what i don't, what works and what doesnt..

I am a qualified furniture maker, even though I havent touched the tools in a while, I would be keen to get back into it and oddly enough, my misses agrees that i need something like this...

The other reason I am limiting my budget to the 5K mark is because I am not going into this thinking I will get much money back when I go to sell it...

My thinking is that I will probably stuff this boat right up... both in sailing it and probably applying trial and error methods in my DIY projects... I am not saying that this is a certainty, just being realistic about such matters.

I live in Windsor at the moment, so if anyone can give me advice on mooring I would be most greatful. Thanks for the tips Andrew on keel type, it was something that i had not thought about...

cheers

 

[FullCircle]

That is not a hull, that would be a complete boat you buy, which needs refurbing. All boats need work, even a couple of years old.
5k= decent late 70s or 80s 22-24 ft. Will buy more boat if you go for a lesser known boat, but difficult to sell on. You will usually get your money back if you make the right purchase, and slightly (although not proportionately) more if you tart it up.

Moorings:

Solent=eye watering
East Coast= A tear in your eye
Local YC Drying Mooring= Cheapest
Council Drying mooring= Cheapish
Yard Drying Mooring= Cheap
Swinging Mooring= Cheaper(than Marina)
Marina=Sell your kids to the Slavers.

Rates for different areas/yards vary enormously. Research required.

Drying Mooring= Lift Keel or Bilge or Catamaran
Deep Water= Whatever you like, but remember where you will want to anchor or moor for the weekend.

 

[simon_sluggett]

You may be better of getting a trailer sailer lifting keel yacht being in windsor. moor it just for the summer on a swinging mooring, tow it home for winter and work on it at home.
You could try the solent, a good safe place to learn, loads of places to visit. Its only 90 mins down the M3 and you could join a sailing club like portchester and get a mooring for under £200 a year.
Why do you think you wont get your money back on a boat? If you buy a decent boat at the right price there will be somone just like yourself in a few years time looking for the same and you will get your money back. What you need to watch is what you spend any additional money on. Things like outboards, dinghys, waterproofs lifejackets, portable electronics will cost plenty but you can take them with you to your next boat (or sell them on ebay later) but fixed things stay with the boat and you wont get any more back than the maximum price for any given model of boat. It depands on how long you will keep a boat, if you want to trade up in a couple of years its a waste of money making the boat an A1 example.

 

[PBooth]

Hi, my Cobra 750 cost me 8k last year, needing quite a few jobs doing: the recent new engine needed re-installing, a complete rewire, all new electronics, new windows, new headlinings, new standing rigging and some tidying up down below. I can do all the work myself and have many useful contacts through my work and fellow sailing club members, so the cost of refurbishment isn't too high and I know that when finished, the boat will be 100% ok, and I will know every single item of gear and system and how to sort out any problem. Early this summer, I bought a cheap trailer sailer (Manta 19) just to get out on the water on nice days, and it's been great fun and helped spur me on with the Cobra, highly recommended to anyone with a project that is dragging on a bit. The Cobra is a great boat and I would urge you to keep looking for the right one for you.

Peter

 

[garvellachs]

You're asking a lot of your £5K here; I'm sure there are people out there who have done it, but I think you'll struggle to sleep 4, go to France stably and safely in 24ft on £5K. Something smaller (day sailer?) to learn on the sea with and to explore potential locations, trailerable to avoid having to find a mooring at first, fun for 4 but not overnight, might be the way to go? We started with a Cobra 750 in good condition over £10K, but there was still plenty to do, as others say. Three other things to ponder: people nearly always buy another boat soon after their first (you need the first to find out waht you really want), most of us have found something we really like rather than a compromise, build up carefully with the family (they can be frightened easily and semi-permanently).

 

[simon_sluggett]

[ QUOTE ]

I know there are a few more Cobra's around, but it would appear they are a little out of my price range with the average price being around 9.5K... I still really like the Cobra... and will give it a month or 2 to see if one pops up over the winter...

[/ QUOTE ]

I got my cobra 750 for £6500, it was a bit neglected but very solid buy, got it back to 90% good now and should be 100% by next spring. Good thing is I know everything is sorted by finding all the problems and bodges done previously. Also you really get to know your boat so you can sort any problem easily in the future.

Poke around marinas or talk to brokers, you may find one on their books they can't shift and could be had for silly money.
I know of one in a yard at Bristol docks which is a complete unfinished kit and unlaunched. You could effectively have a brand new one for a bargain price there.

 

[mr_williams]

Thanks you guys,
I would be keen to get some more info on the one in Bristol thanks Mag..

I don't think I am asking too much for around 5K... I have found lots of boats close to the money that offer plenty, its just knowing what are really good makes & types compared to others... and this is where you guys come in. You have all helped me so much and I really appreciate it.

Plenty of Snapdragon's about and lots at about 6K... You never know, peoples circumstances change and sometimes they just need to get rid of something.. so I think I will get close to it.

Still have the Cobra on my mind though..

 

[Guest]

Snaps at 6k ... prices asked !

Prices asked are commonly significantly higher than reality ... unless someone is selling fast !
Most older boats hang around like lead weights waiting for buyers ... unless of a particular model that is popular.

I have bought at 50% of asking price ...Snapdragon 23, 30% off asking price Alacrity 19, 10% of asking price Sunrider 25 .... so make silly offer ......be brave enough to walk away and leave tel #. Make it a cash deal and you'd be surprised !!

 

[seabite]

if you are still intrested in a cobra look at red-ensign.com yacht brokers they have one there. it also comes with marina berth if required much harder to find the berth than the boat

 

[mr_williams]

sabite, that boat is nice but again they are asking 10K+....

sbc is on the money... I was born in Australia, and in most places out there, we used to barter for stuff so I can get a bargain most of the time...

Cash..cash..cash.. money talks, bullshyte walks...

I am now viewing a Snapdragon 26 on Sat.... Already talking a price of £4,500... this is down from 8K...

Never be afraid to ask.... or you will never get.

I will probably start a new thread now asking for snapdragon tips... what to look for etc...

Cheers for all your help...

 

[Guest]

Good for you !! Go for it ...

The Snap 26 and its brother the 27 are vastly under-rated boats ....

They are strong, sturdy and will look after you ... they won't win any glamour comps for looks or any races .... but they are good reliable boats for not so much money.

Honest - have a look for a 27 as well .... you might be surprised at prices ....

And too true ... Cash Talks BS walks !!

Good luck .....

 

[Dipper]

When you have decided on the actual boat you want, make an offer 'subject to survey'. Then pay for a professional survey. Since you are new to this size of boat there can be very expensive faults not readily visible to the newcomer.

The survey money won't be wasted. If there are expensive faults you can walk away and you will have saved yourself a lot of money and grief. If there are less serious faults you can knock the price down accordingly - maybe not for the full amount of the repairs but it will help. If there are no significant problems you will probably find your insurance company will want a new survey on an old boat every 10 years anyway so this survey will last you until 2016.