No Free tows from R.N.L.I. ?

[MystyBlue2]

And yet you seem to think you are entitled to a priority service because of the amount you pay. It doesn't work like that.



The RNLI is not a subscription service, as Boathook explained above. You can donate regularly if you want but it doesn't make the slightest difference to the service you get, and you will just have to put up with the possibility that they may be saving the lives of "illegals" and be unavailable to tow you home when your engine conks out.

That is absolutely fine, I dont expect priority because i donate! That is your assumption. My bug bare and probably 1000's of others too is the fact of I've been a loyal donator to the lifeboats, never missed a lifeboat day since sub 10year old, Been nothing but respectful and the one time i might be up the creek with no paddle they can then say "Sorry we cant help, Emergency only, Find an alternative" but no mention about the Illegals needing a tow in?

How do they seek priority over any one of us in need?

Seems the typical scenario, look after others before our own. Anybody with half a braincell knows that is wrong and NO OTHER country would be like that!

 

[[70521]]

I wasn't banging on "Full Gammon" i was simply stating a valid point. Can you deny it?

At the end of the day they are ILLEGALS! I am fully fledged LEGAL and I'm then one to be told "Sorry we cant offer you a tow" after 100's spent, keyrings, Stickers, Pens etc, And in donations and never missed a lifeboat day since i was under 10years of age! I have nothing but huge respect for the RNLI and the volunteers but if i am no longer going to be accepted for a tow when im in desperate need then i feel i will be sadly withdrawing my donations.

Good lord sir, those illegals are human beings! Some have terrifying stories to tell, I take it you have never spent the time listening to their stories. They put what we have done in our lives and for our families into infinitesimal amounts of trivia.

I have very few people on ignore and sadly you have just joined that band of very special people.

 

[[2068]]

I have become exercised in recent times, on reading the daily reports of lifeboats being called out, at great expense, to tow idiots in motorboats who have forgotten to bring spare fuel, or more importantly, an alternative means of propulsion, such as oars for a small boat, or a "get-you-home" outboard for a larger one.

A ”get you home“ outboard isn’t practical for a larger motorboat.
The spare fuel should already be in the fuel tanks.
Many larger motorboats will be twin engined, but there are still single points of failure such as steering systems.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Good lord sir, those illegals are human beings! Some have terrifying stories to tell, I take it you have never spent the time listening to their stories. They put what we have done in our lives and for our families into infinitesimal amounts of trivia.

I have very few people on ignore and sadly you have just joined that band of very special people.

And I'm a human being and so is every body else from here that is in trouble! But hey its fine though we will just drift to Norway or Ireland.

Why are we putting ILLEGALS (People smugglers) infront of our own LEGAL citizens that are in need!

KEYWORD - ILLEGAL

If you have heard plenty of sad stories about them being lost at sea and how hard life is at sea, keep your ears open, Theres going to be plenty more where they came from now.

 

[MystyBlue2]

A ”get you home“ outboard isn’t practical for a larger motorboat.
The spare fuel should already be in the fuel tanks.
Many larger motorboats will be twin engined, but there are still single points of failure such as steering systems.

My boat is only 14ft and with gear, fuel, spare fuel, tackle, battery, anchor, drogue etc etc, it is not practical for weight nor space for me to carry a spare motor.

As long as my motor is 100% trustworthy and is in tip top condition and serviced regularly then i see no need for a second motor.

I know things can happen unexpectedly but i THOUGHT i could rely on another vessel in the area or the RNLI to help at this point. Obviously not!

How many of you carry a spare car engine in the boot incase your primary engine breaks down??

Come on, yes we need to cover all aspects but its not always practical lets face it!

 

[Kelpie]

"Sorry we cant help, Emergency only, Find an alternative" but no mention about the Illegals needing a tow in?

How do they seek priority over any one of us in need?

It has always been "emergency only", as you put it.
A tiny boat chock full of people with inadequate equipment drifting around a shipping lane probably qualifies as an emergency.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Why are we putting ILLEGALS (People smugglers) infront of our own LEGAL citizens that are in need!

KEYWORD - ILLEGAL

If you have heard plenty of sad stories about them being lost at sea and how hard life is at sea, keep your ears open, Theres going to be plenty more where they came from now.

I think you may be losing your sense of perspective here.

There are 238 lifeboat stations around the coast of the UK and Ireland. Of those, approximately 7 have been involved in calls to migrant boats, although I believe 2 of those 7 have only had 1 call each.

Most reports of migrant boats are dealt with by Border Force. It's only when those Border Force boats are overwhelmed with sheer numbers of dinghies involved, or there is deemed to be an immediate threat to life, that lifeboats get involved. They certainly don't provide a constant ferry service, as some would have you believe.

I have some friends on lifeboats on the south and east Kent coasts, who have what might best be described as fairly robust and right-wing views on immigration, but even they have been moved to tears by what they have encountered in the channel over the last couple of years.

They have pulled families from the water, kids screaming in terror, with their dinghies literally sinking under them. Now, you could argue that the migrants have put themselves in that position, and have no one to blame but themselves. Which may or may not be the case. But could you, in all honesty, stand by and watch them drown?

It's easy to say sod 'em, let them die, they deserve it, but it takes some balls to actually stand there and watch them do it.

 

[MystyBlue2]

I think you may be losing your sense of perspective here.

There are 238 lifeboat stations around the coast of the UK and Ireland. Of those, approximately 7 have been involved in calls to migrant boats, although I believe 2 of those 7 have only had 1 call each.

Most reports of migrant boats are dealt with by Border Force. It's only when those Border Force boats are overwhelmed with sheer numbers of dinghies involved, or there is deemed to be an immediate threat to life, that lifeboats get involved. They certainly don't provide a constant ferry service, as some would have you believe.

I have some friends on lifeboats on the south and east Kent coasts, who have what might best be described as fairly robust and right-wing views on immigration, but even they have been moved to tears by what they have encountered in the channel over the last couple of years.

They have pulled families from the water, kids screaming in terror, with their dinghies literally sinking under them. Now, you could argue that the migrants have put themselves in that position, and have no one to blame but themselves. Which may or may not be the case. But could you, in all honesty, stand by and watch them drown?

It's easy to say sod 'em, let them die, they deserve it, but it takes some balls to actually stand there and watch them do it.

I never once said "Sod em" see this is what happens every time someone opens their mouth about immigration, foreigners or anything along those lines, The story gets twisted and always ends up making the guy with an opinion seem like a total heartless racist! And the poor ILLEGAL immigrants have had the hardest life imaginable.

That is not my intention, If folk cannot see my argument here then i pity the folk!

i had an opinion of the topic of this thread, I voiced it, I've nothing more to say on this particular matter.

 

[Juan Twothree]

I never once said "Sod em" see this is what happens every time someone opens their mouth about immigration, foreigners or anything along those lines, The story gets twisted and always ends up making the guy with an opinion seem like a total heartless racist!

I know you didn't say those exact words, but I'm just following your argument through to its logical conclusion.

You've said only a few posts back that you don't want lifeboats going to the aid of ILLEGAL (your capitals) migrants .

So if their dinghy is sinking, and they're going to end up in the water before very long, what would you like to happen to them?

 

[MystyBlue2]

But you've said only a few posts back that you don't want lifeboats going to the aid of ILLEGAL (your capitals) migrants .

So if their dinghy is sinking, and they're going to end up in the water before very long, what would you like to happen to them?

If my dinghy was drifting to Norway i bet you wouldn't be dispatched as quickly as you would "Others" lets say. I would be now told "Sorry find alternative, We can no longer tow unless its a danger to life"

And i never once said i didnt want them saved. What i said was "What gives them more right to a rescue than LEGAL CITIZENS"

How and why is it, Wagon drivers get stopped and fined £10,000 per migrant and potential loss of job for bringing them in the back of a wagon for (People smuggling) Plus the wagon company gets fined £100,000 BUT a lifeboat can bring 20 across on a small dinghy and they get a well done! And a pat on the back?

ILLEGAL means ILLEGAL. Regardless of who brings them in. Simple as!

How is that so hard to understand?

I know your just doing your job and doing as your told as RNLI crew but if you look at the situation from the opposite side of the fence, You might just see my point.

 

[mersea_paddler]

Wow...was gonna join in with why we tow but this seems a little off topic

 

[Capt Popeye]

The RNLI is not a subscription service. Perhaps it would be better to spend some of your money on having your engine serviced?

And yet you seem to think you are entitled to a priority service because of the amount you pay. It doesn't work like that.



The RNLI is not a subscription service, as Boathook explained above. You can donate regularly if you want but it doesn't make the slightest difference to the service you get, and you will just have to put up with the possibility that they may be saving the lives of "illegals" and be unavailable to tow you home when your engine conks out.

As I understand it, the RNLI actually rescues or possibly aids more non Donators than it does to those more likely to donate.
For instance Anglers and Dog Walkers who get cut off by a rising tide are most often mentioned as a reason for a call out by local RNLI anyones guess as to wether they actually suscribe or not !

W hat we have here is I think a well funded institution that would appear to defining its objectives more clearly than before, maybe changing them to be more WOKE and such like, maybe to be seen as trendy, maybe to be seen as part of the In Crowd etc; most probably as a result of Top Managements attitude changing etc to Nit Pick , like whats going on in the closed crew huts etc, when is it our Job or not, the RNLI do seem to rely upon Pictures that supprt the Stero Type of SAVING lives at Sea or Afloat with Heros offering outstretched hands whereas a Picture of a RNLI small craft crew withdrawing their hand and stating , not this time Chap you are not (yet) in danger , might come back later if you meet the definition of actually being in Danger, tat ar,

Unless that RNLI is both seen to act impartially and without fear of decriminating who, why, and what it will again loose public support;

To actually state that part of this decision is based upon costs of repairs etc is a ruddy Bean Counters way of running this service. Before anyone states it, its in the statement quite early on that in part costs from damage are a stated reason for this mission statement

 

[Mister E]

And I'm a human being and so is every body else from here that is in trouble! But hey its fine though we will just drift to Norway or Ireland.

Why are we putting ILLEGALS (People smugglers) infront of our own LEGAL citizens that are in need!

KEYWORD - ILLEGAL

If you have heard plenty of sad stories about them being lost at sea and how hard life is at sea, keep your ears open, Theres going to be plenty more where they came from now.

You realy need to calm down. The RNLI have a saying "Saving Lives at Sea" they do not ask if those lives are worth it or have paid.
The saying is not Running Out of Fuel at sea, there is a big difference. You are not in danger. yet.

 

[penfold]

SOLAS requires all seafarers to make best effort to rescue those in distress.

Chapter 5 of SOLAS
Paragraph 10.
DISTRESS MESSAGES — OBLIGATIONS AND PROCEDURES
(a) The master of a ship at sea, on receiving a signal from any source that a ship or air craft or survival craft thereof is in distress, is bound to proceed with all speed to the assistance of the persons in distress informing them if possible that he is doing so. If he is unable or, in the special circumstances of the case, considers it unreasonable or unnecessary to proceed to their assistance, he must enter in the logbook the reason for failing to proceed to the assistance of the persons in distress.

I haven't established whether it's been superceded or just added to, but the 1910 Brussels Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules of Law respecting Assistance and Salvage at Sea says;

ARTICLE 11
Every master is bound, so far as he can do so without serious danger to his vessel, her crew and passengers, to render assistan

In any case The International Convention on Salvage, 1989 goes on to echo with fairly similar wording;

ARTICLE 10
Duty to render assistance
1. Every master is bound, so far as he can do so without serious danger to his vessel and persons thereon, to render assistance to any person in danger of being lost at sea.

No wiggle room there to consult the D***y M**l about whether they're deserving, just rescue them or face prosecution.

 

[lustyd]

How and why is it, Wagon drivers get stopped and fined £10,000 per migrant and potential loss of job for bringing them in the back of a wagon for (People smuggling) Plus the wagon company gets fined £100,000 BUT a lifeboat can bring 20 across on a small dinghy and they get a well done! And a pat on the back?
.

The customs officer who rescues them from the wagon doesn’t get a fine either. If the RNLI went to France and accepted money for rides they would get a fine, as do yachtsmen. Finding another human in need and helping them doesn’t attract a fine because not only is it not illegal it’s the right thing to do.

 

[graham]

The problem I would foresee is that problems tend to escalate.

What was initially a broken down boat anchored outside a harbour needing a tow in will soon become a broken down boat with flat batteries so now has no vhf or lights to warn other craft of its position.

Later still they will have to recover the anchor by hand as the windlass will be dead then Fred jams his hand in the chain and now needs urgent evacuation etc etc etc.

 

[oldgit]

The last thing we need is any skipper failing to to call for any assistance due to worries about the financial consquences.
Would suggest that a well heeled skipper in a well found expensive boat and with some experience about what could go wrong, will have very little concerns about calling the coastguard for timely assistance , other than feeling a prat once the the word gets around.
My worry is at the other end of the spectrum, the inexperienced , the foolhardy and a the ignorant in a totally unsuitable craft in the wrong place and the wrong time.
If this means a few twats get rounded up then so be it .
Have spent nearly 7 decades on and around water both for work and pleasure.
Been in a situation where a lifeboat was called out, possibly without need, would do it again without a pause for thought.
Have also had cause to thank the Shoreham lifeboat for their efforts on one ,unfortunately unsuccessful , call out.
Sounds as though some folks have no idea of the thoughts going through a skippers mind under these situations, more experience will enlighten them .

 

[Gary Fox]

The last thing we need is any skipper failing to to call for any assistance due to worries about the financial consquences.
Would suggest that a well heeled skipper in a well found expensive boat and with some experience about what could go wrong, will have very little concerns about calling the coastguard for timely assistance , other than feeling a prat once the the word gets around.
My worry is at the other end of the spectrum, the inexperienced , the foolhardy and a the ignorant in a totally unsuitable craft in the wrong place and the wrong time.
If this means a few twats get rounded up then so be it .
Have spent nearly 7 decades on and around water both for work and pleasure.
Been in a situation where a lifeboat was called out, possibly without need, would do it again without a pause for thought.
Have also had cause to thank the Shoreham lifeboat for their efforts on one ,unfortunately unsuccessful , call out.
Sounds as though some folks have no idea of the thoughts going through a skippers mind under these situations, more experience will enlighten them .

How do you mean, quote: 'If this means a few twats get rounded up then so be it.' Unquote. ??

 

[steve yates]

Ridiculous if you ask me, I've paid 100's in donations over the past 10years into the local lifeboat station and now they tell me i dont qualify for a tow if i have engine failure out at sea. No good taking me to the closest safe haven as where i fish is 3 miles down the coast from where i launch and the closest safe haven would be a complete different harbour from where my car and trailer is!

They are complaining about being used as a towing service...What about the FREE recovery service they send out for the illegals? Thats ok is it? But for a guy that has donated to them, I will be refused?

Theres not always other vessels near by to give the tow instead and what about other scenarios where there might be other boats out but there just not suitable to secure a tow safely.

NOBODY should look at the RNLI as the AA but towing should definitely be part of their job as a drifting boat with engine failure could easily escalate from a PAN-PAN to a MAYDAY!

Sounds like a towing service is exactly how you see it, and are outraged that it might not be there on demand despite you having "paid" your donations.
And if you actually read juans post, you will not be left abandoned in your pan pan call till it becomes a mayday, the cox'n will discuss with you what needs doing to stop you going on the rocks, and that does NOT include having to return you to wherever is convenient for your car and trailer.
Here's an idea, get a bus or a taxi or hitch back to where they are and drive them over to the safe haven you were deposited in? Or if you have to pay a fishing boat for a tow, then you can choose where to be towed too, if your happy to pay for it.

 

[steve yates]

Oh dont you look a fool! Here you go from the RNLI website!

If you are going to patronise folk, Please make sure you know you are 100% correct before hand

In what world is a DD set up to a charity a subscription service? Does that mean my dd to MSF entitles me to free health care in the Congo should I happen to pop over there and get ill?