NMEA and NMEA2000

jack_tar

jack_tar

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I have just replied to a post further down the list WRT instruments, and thought that It may make for an interesting discussion. the jist of what i was saying was , that as technology advances day on day, the marine nav instrument makers will soon be producing gear that works on NMEA 2000. as i understand things that would make it difficult to retain instruments that work on the old nmea standard. for example If I went and purchaced a new plotter that works with Nmea2000, how would I connect the GPS output from it into a standard DSC VHF radio? or is this taken care of by providing a standard nmea o/p on the new unit. In my understanding, Raymarine use seatalk which is a nmea2000 CAN bus system ( CAN bus being the basis for NMEA2000) do any members of the forum have experience of connecting their raymarine gear to say a dsc radio.
In my opinion NMEA 2000 will prevail in the next few years, but what will small boat owners do when some item of their old nmea gear breaks down and the only replacement will be in nmea 2000? technology marches on and drives marketing and purchasers aspirations, we all would like to have the latest and by implication the best gear, be that on the boat or around the home.

perhaps I am talking a load of old twaddle I am sure someone will let me know.

As I am also sure there will be someone who would do away with all modern aids to navigation and set out with a lodestone and some seaweed on a string, telling us all that we dont need all this new fangled technology and are just wasting effort thinking about it

Cheers /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
yes I am aware that there are no idea what price they are. but is that not just another piece of kit to add to the never ending bits of kit on the boat. IMHO the manufacturers should have some responsibility to ensure their gear is backwards compatable ?
 
Manufacturers will introduce NMEA2000 gradually, with equipment which also has NMEA0183 capability. This situation will continue for some years. I'd imagine that most manufacturers would assume a useful life of 7-8 years for most marine equipment, after which it might be reasonable to move on to the next generation.

Raymarine do indeed use SeaTalk, but their equipment generally has NMEA capability as well.
 
Ah, ho capito
I understand now. but your lifetags are only talking to their base station. but I take your point that your plotter and pilot are comunicating with seatalk. thanks. envious of your current position sound fantastic buona fortuna
 
"In my understanding, Raymarine use seatalk which is a nmea2000 CAN bus system "
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Only the new Seatalk2 can be compared to NMEA2000. The old Seatalk is a 4800b proprietary protocol.

I think there will be plenty of instruments which support NMEA0183 and NMEA2000 for quite a while and then there will be a market for small adaptors which are often needed today just to get from Seatalk1 to NMEA0183. Yes another box but as you go along the NMEA2000 path the functionality gains will usually make it worth while.
 
The lifetag base station also communicates to the e80. If you chuck one of the kids overboard the e80 M.O.B function shows you where to go and look for it when the wife complains.

Alternatively if you go over the side the same feature shows the wife which area to avoid when 'searching'.


/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
... but your lifetags are only talking to their base station. but I take your point that your plotter and pilot are comunicating with seatalk. thanks. envious of your current position sound fantastic buona fortuna

[/ QUOTE ]

That would surprise me. Garmin and Simrad do not talk Seatalk. Seatalk is a prorietary Raymarine protocol. If the Garmin GPS communicates with the Simrad pilot it does so via NMEA 0183. Even if the Ray plotter would communicate with the pilot the protocol would be NMEA 0183 since the plotter doesn't understand Seatalk.

Fair winds
Dirk
 
".......do any members of the forum have experience of connecting their raymarine gear to say a dsc radio....."


Yes..... my Raystar gps will output either seatalk or nmea.....for reasons I won`t bore you with I choose seatalk......this is then fed into the C120...seatalk in.....then I take a feed from the C120 nmea out and put it into the Standard Horizon dsc radio......qed. The C120 converts the seatalk into nmea which you can then squirt wherever you like.
The disadvantage of my present system is that the C120 has to be switched on for me to have dsc position information....but I`m working on that.
 
thanks NOHOH

glad to have asked the question, it would seem that there is considerable confusion surrounding these two protocols, as someone with limited budget it is important to get the most bang for my bucks, and I dont want to be spending now on something that in a few years time will need replacing with something else thanks to all who responded
 
I know you wont bore us with why ... but seems to me that first priority of NMEA data is to DSC VHf and second to C120.

Making it other way round is IMHO prone to losing DSC input or error.

Seatalk is fine - but is a single manufacturer system and therefore IMHO a bad idea. If the "~Seatalk" that years ago was on the public domain had been used - different story, but it wasn't. NMEA 0183 may have it's limitations, but it's stood test of time and works.
My Lowrance has NMEA2000 and 0183 outputs / inputs. I have connected eTrex GPS INTO it and works (NMEA 0183), I have connected stuff OUT of it (NMEA 0183) and it works. I have connected stuff into it (NMEA 2000 - in fact the GPS engine is 2000 format) and works, I have info from ex lowrance engineer that 2000 gear will work OUT of it. ALL that gear apart from GPS antena supplied is other manufacturers gear and not following the monopolistic attitude of Raymarine.

Fear of gear going obselete with NMEA 0183 ? I think most of us can rest easy on that IMHO ... 0183 has still a lot of life left in it ...

To those who mention Seatalk to NMEA converters - had one - gave up. The 0183 conversion in / out was not 100% kosher. wasn't on mine anyway ! waste of dosh IMHO. Also an electronics engineer has told me that 2000 and Seatalk have no relation to each other than they are instrument protocols.
 
What's all the fuss about? My GPS has a display.
Right, haven't managed to get it to talk to the windvane and I'm still working on the input from the Walker log but hey!

Seriously though: I do not wish my pastime to become a full time job requiring degrees in advanced electronics and IT.
Progress may be fine but this is more of a marketing ploy IMHO.
 
SeaTalk was certainly partly a marketing ploy, but there was some sound logic behind it. Raymarine realised that not many of us want to spend our time fitting fiddly little wires into the fiddly little terminal blocks on the back of instruments - not to mention the considerable scope for getting the connections wrong. So the "plug and play" concept of SeaTalk was, at the time, a valuable benefit.
 
[ QUOTE ]
SeaTalk was certainly partly a marketing ploy, but there was some sound logic behind it. Raymarine realised that not many of us want to spend our time fitting fiddly little wires into the fiddly little terminal blocks on the back of instruments - not to mention the considerable scope for getting the connections wrong. So the "plug and play" concept of SeaTalk was, at the time, a valuable benefit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed ... but if Raymarine had played game like IBM and opened up the market - so others could play as well ... Seatalk would be common ground for manufacturers and 2000 would probably not be on cards now. IBM were clever enough to realise the potential of not closing doors when PC"s came about. Raymarine with modifying Seatalk took away making similar marketing decision and benefits.

So maybe 2000 is others saying ........ Hey - look we can interconnect without fiddly wires etc. and without paying to Raymarine huge royalty sums for Seatalk protocol ?

I just hope that 2000 doesn't get altered by some idiot trying to monopolise on his gear ..
 
Perhaps it's unfair to single out Raymarine's SeaTalk for criticism. After all, nobody seems to complain about Simrad's SimNet or Furuno's NavNet, do they?
 
Maybe a quick look through such as this :

http://www.maretron.com/products/overview.php

I have no connection to the company and have no items from them. Just link here as indicator and interest value ...

I think it's interesting the PC / 2000 / instrument link-up possibilities. They also provide 0183 - 2000 conversion as well as SimNet and Seatalk ..........

Nice to see NMEA 2000 still open standard !
 
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