NHS Treatment Restrictions

[Graham376]

Seems the UK Gov will be charging for treatment for those who spend >6 months out of country.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-190218/Ex-pat-pensioners-denied-NHS-treatment.html

 

[jordanbasset]

Seems the UK Gov will be charging for treatment for those who spend >6 months out of country.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-190218/Ex-pat-pensioners-denied-NHS-treatment.html

How old is that article, John Hutton hasn't been health minister for 14 years

 

[Graham376]

How old is that article, John Hutton hasn't been health minister for 14 years

It's dated today, 30th November

 

[jordanbasset]

It's dated today, 30th November

Which year, because Hutton was a Health minister under Blair, Hutton left the role in 2005

 

[greeny]

Strange.
Click on the link to go to the article. Then select another topic from the tabs, lets say News or Home, Then select the health tab again to go back to the article and it isn't there anymore and if you scroll and scroll it's still not there.
It's April 1st is it?
My wife subscribes to the mail online and if I go in on her log in, the article can't be found there either.

 

[V1701]

It sounds like an old article that still has an active url (web address) but which isn't linked to from any of the current live web pages. Maybe came up amongst the results of a search?

 

[Graham376]

It sounds like an old article that still has an active url (web address) but which isn't linked to from any of the current live web pages. Maybe came up amongst the results of a search?

Yes, came up on a search. Very strange as the page is clearly dated today.

 

[Graham376]

Here's a similar report but, this one is dated 2011 so old news. https://expathealth.org/country-updates/uk-expat-nhs-treatment/

 

[Tony Cross]

The cover notes that came with my S1 form, whereby I get Greek healthcare paid for by the NHS, specifically state that should I visit the UK I am entitled to NHS treatment 'as though I were ordinarily resident'. If the pensioners the article refers to are using the S1 scheme then the comments in the article are wrong.

 

[vyv_cox]

We lived in the Netherlands for seven years. When I signed up with a GP over there I gave him all the info concerning my UK GP and assumed that he obtained all my medical history. I then advised him when we returned to UK.

First time I visited my GP at home he said: 'we haven't seen you for a while, must be keeping healthy'. In our case I did everything I should but it seems the message did not come through. But if you do not tell your GP that you have been away for more than six months, how will he know?

 

[Graham376]

The cover notes that came with my S1 form, whereby I get Greek healthcare paid for by the NHS, specifically state that should I visit the UK I am entitled to NHS treatment 'as though I were ordinarily resident'. If the pensioners the article refers to are using the S1 scheme then the comments in the article are wrong.

If you're a pensioner having relocated abroad and holding S1, different rules apply. People just out of country >6 months on holiday are in a totally different situation and some find themselves out of the system when they arrive back. One woman we know was refused continued hospital treatment and a guy's GP told him he was off the books. I was warned by Dr at eye hospital that further treatment could be stopped if he noted my intended absence.

 

[Tony Cross]

If you're a pensioner having relocated abroad and holding S1, different rules apply. People just out of country >6 months on holiday are in a totally different situation and some find themselves out of the system when they arrive back. One woman we know was refused continued hospital treatment and a guy's GP told him he was off the books. I was warned by Dr at eye hospital that further treatment could be stopped if he noted my intended absence.

Fair enough.

 

[macd]

People just out of country >6 months on holiday are in a totally different situation and some find themselves out of the system when they arrive back.

This is no longer the case, although it was a few years back (and for a while before that, three months was the figure bandied about). The eligibility test is now far more nuanced and not based on a crude test of length of absence. Basically, any UK citizen "ordinarily resident" in the UK qualifies for free NHS care, however long they might have spent on their world cruise. Somewhere on line there's a detailed guide** to the process actually used by health officials: nowhere is an absence of any prescribed length a disqualification.

** a quick search didn't unearth it, but for anyone with lots of time on their hands, here's a more long-winded official guide to eligibility: https://assets.publishing.service.g...the_overseas_visitor_charging_regulations.pdf

Equally, as Vyv says, who's going to know unless you shop yourself?

Yes, came up on a search. Very strange as the page is clearly dated today.

Not so strange. Today's date is often found on on-line pages generated today. Reputable papers would, however, give the date of original publication, and even flag warnings such as "This article is more than three years old".
(Buried in the Wail page's source data is the line"publishedDate: null". Helpful.)

 

[Graham376]

This is no longer the case, although it was a few years back (and for a while before that, three months was the figure bandied about). The eligibility test is now far more nuanced and not based on a crude test of length of absence. Basically, any UK citizen "ordinarily resident" in the UK qualifies for free NHS care, however long they might have spent on their world cruise. Somewhere on line there's a detailed guide** to the process actually used by health officials: nowhere is an absence of any prescribed length a disqualification.

As I mentioned previously, when a doctor mentioned making a follow up appointment and I told him I may be away for 6 months or more, he said that would disqualify me from NHS treatment if it came to light. There's a link here to DHS guidelines but I've not absorbed the content yet -

https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/736849/Ordinary_residence_tool.pdf

 

[macd]

As I mentioned previously, when a doctor mentioned making a follow up appointment and I told him I may be away for 6 months or more, he said that would disqualify me from NHS treatment...

Could you be more specific about when you received that advice?

As per my previous post, the six months concept is no longer used. Any authoritative text your care to read will tell you that "ordinarily resident" is now the test. This has sometimes been abbreviated to a six month test by and for the simple-minded, but NHS/govt guidance makes clear that this is crude and very far from definitive. If your doctor tells you otherwise, he/she has not been paying attention.

My understanding is that six- (or three-) month tests for determining "ordinarily resident" have repeatedly been ruled unlawful. This has filtered into many areas of government practice. You may even have noticed that the old, time-limited test for SSR eligibility has disappeared from the MCA website, to be replaced by "ordinarily resident".

 

[Graham376]

Could you be more specific about when you received that advice?

20th March 2019.

 

[grumpygit]

As I mentioned previously, when a doctor mentioned making a follow up appointment and I told him I may be away for 6 months or more, he said that would disqualify me from NHS treatment if it came to light. There's a link here to DHS guidelines but I've not absorbed the content yet -

https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/736849/Ordinary_residence_tool.pdf

If in doubt, it may be very wise to keep shtum about ones circumstances. But for us, we spend up to 11 months of the year out of the UK with just a couple or so visits back. In the last 3 years under the NHS I've had 2 TKR's and 2 ops on my wrist of which I'm still under the surgeon.
Both my surgeons and our doctors know our circumstances of which presents no problems with our prolonged absence. Also the same position with our NHS dentist which has the same view, although we do still hold a current UK address.
We also have no problems getting excellent free basic treatment here in Greece, many a time without them wanting to see the E111
If there is a problem and not sure these days but it used to go something like this . . . . the time limit for the loss of NHS treatment is technically 90 days but on return if questioned you can state you are renewing full time residency back in the UK and you can then receive free NHS treatment.
If I'm wrong, I'm sure I will be corrected.

 

[RupertW]

Both my surgeons and our doctors know our circumstances of which presents no problems with our prolonged absence. Also the same position with our NHS dentist which has the same view, although we do still hold a current UK address.

If there is a problem and not sure these days but it used to go something like this . . . . the time limit for the loss of NHS treatment is technically 90 days but on return if questioned you can state you are renewing full time residency back in the UK and you can then receive free NHS treatment.
If I'm wrong, I'm sure I will be corrected.

No, you are still correct. Keeping a UK address is technically not enough as it’s not proof of ordinary residency but practically it works especially if all your comms and repeat prescriptions are done electronically and you have somebody to accept delivery.

But the instant you come back in the country you have full access to all NHS care as long as you provide no evidence that you are going back to your normal overseas residence. The rules and the practicalities are one reason I disbanded a small team costing 75k a year in a hospital whose jobs was to find and pursue overseas health “guests”. They had identified over a million quid in treatment the previous year which the people weren’t entitled to and got back over 250k of it from them. But every person who had paid up in the last 5 years had been a British citizen (most cases were retirees getting hips or knees, but by far the most money was from pregnant expats coming home to spend the baby’s first few weeks with the expat’s Mum and happily telling staff they were going back abroad to their husbands afterwards). Poeple who would never have been entitled or lived in Britain just changed their names or went home and could never be made to pay, so the whole system was a tax on being British and honest.

 

[Graham376]

But the instant you come back in the country you have full access to all NHS care as long as you provide no evidence that you are going back to your normal overseas residence.

That's the problem in some cases. A doctor has just given excellent treatment and suggests you should see him again in a month or two for a routine check. Do you lie to him, make an appointment you have no intention of keeping or, judging his attitude (we had been discussing our sailing) tell him the truth? I took a chance and explained why I wouldn't be around and he made the decision to go along with it. He was aware we have a house here which we use for extended periods and pay taxes, just like his other patients.

I can understand why the NHS needs to save money and feel it fair to stop treatment for those who have sold up, moved away and contribute nothing but, why persecute those who are still contributing UK tax payers but happen to be out of the country for quite a while? We shouldn't have to prove ordinary residence.

 

[RupertW]

W

That's the problem in some cases. A doctor has just given excellent treatment and suggests you should see him again in a month or two for a routine check. Do you lie to him, make an appointment you have no intention of keeping or, judging his attitude (we had been discussing our sailing) tell him the truth? I took a chance and explained why I wouldn't be around and he made the decision to go along with it. He was aware we have a house here which we use for extended periods and pay taxes, just like his other patients.

I can understand why the NHS needs to save money and feel it fair to stop treatment for those who have sold up, moved away and contribute nothing but, why persecute those who are still contributing UK tax payers but happen to be out of the country for quite a while? We shouldn't have to prove ordinary residence.

The NHS ethos is tax paying for all treatment to be free by anyone who turns up asking. So the NHS staff, whether doctors, nurses, managers or anybody else are against charging people even if they are not entitled. It’s been governments of all types responding to tabloid xenophobia that causes clampdowns on “health tourists” even though almost all those who actually pay are Brits. EU and other reciprocal arrangements work really well in a big bureaucratic organisation but health ministers keep sending down these vicious missives to punish people no matter how ineffective they are in getting any money from the tabloid targets, just young British mums and people who loved and paid taxes in the UK all their lives.