Newby need basic advice and help

[Searush]

Thanks for that, I am torn between the trailer sailor thing and having to pay to keep it somewhere. I have about 1 acre at home so plenty of space to store a boat but from what I read It seems that trailering is limited to about 22 feet.

Can you recommend what size boat is comfortable for a single handed sailor, I know I will be on my own most of the time and the cost will be important but I would prefer to get something that I can live with for 10-20 years without being too compromised.

Size is almost irrelevant to single-handing. My current boat is 31' and I mainly sail it solo. Smaller boats are lighter to handle in terms of sail, sheet & anchor loads, but bigger boats with better winches are no problem. 150 footers can be & have been singlehanded. Smaller boats carry their way less (stop quicker) and turn quicker in general, but plan ahead & get to know YOUR boat & it gets easier all the time.

Join a club near where you want to sail & see if you can get some time crewing on other people's boats. It will help you understand the differences between designs. As already mentioned, wander around local quaysides & chat to owners, most will be pleased to tell you about their boat, some may even take you out. Ask what they like about their boat & what they might like to change.

 

[Little Rascal]

A few factors for you to consider:

Depth of water:
Sailing on the Broads and East Coast you will find that a deep draught boat will limit the places you can go and also where you can anchor or moor. A boat with shallow draft and that can safely go aground and dry out is going to give you far more options.

Performance and Seaworthiness:
Unfortunately shallow draft an good performance don’t often go hand in hand. Performance might not matter to you, it isn’t the be-all and end-all but good sailing ability, especially to windward may get you out of trouble. You’ll also find yourself plugging against the tide less and using less fuel. The seaworthiness you require will depend on where you want to go. Offshore passages obviously but the North Sea ain’t always too friendly and in places like Wells and Blakeney you can find yourself stuck out because of the tides.

Accommodation:
Are you a camper or a Caravanner? If you need caravan comfort you’re probably going to need a bigger boat. If you’d be happy camping you’ll probably find most trailer-sailers quite luxurious, if you’ve ever back-packed it’ll feel like heaven!

Trailer Sailer or Mooring/Marina:
Trailer sailing is vastly cheaper especially if you have storage space at home. A mooring or marina berth is going to cost you hundreds at least, probably thousands. It is more convenient if the boat is afloat but you might find yourself sailing the same few miles again and again if time is limited. A trailer-sailer is going to take you an hour or two to rig and launch, but you can take anywhere for new cruising grounds... Cornwall, Scotland etc. A good compromise would be a trailer-sailer that you could keep on a mooring for the season.

Age:
Don’t be put off by old boats - they’re not the same as cars. Just make sure you get something that’s been well looked after and be prepared to spend above average for the type to get a good example. Try and get a boat that has had any known class issues/weaknesses addressed and has a good engine, sails and trailer which are all very expensive to replace.

Unfortunately you can’t have everything, especially in a smaller boat. Good accommodation often compromises performance, as does shallow draft.

Ten grand is a healthy budget though - plan on spending half on the boat and half on the ongoing costs and you’ll not go far wrong.

Trailer sailers to check out: Anderson 22 (lifting keel), Corribee 21(Bilge keel)
Bigger boats: Trident 24, Halcyon 23, Achilles 24
Bigger still: Westerly Centaur, Sabre 27

I’d recommend ‘Sailing Just for Fun’ by Charles Stock as a good read too...

The thing is to work out what you're priorities are and find a boat to suit... but that takes some people years!

Jon

 

[Little Rascal]

Oh and do the RYA Day Skipper course this winter - if you get on with it you'll be able to enroll at a local college or something...

 

[Lady Campanula]

Before long, someone will mention The Dinghy Cruising Association

They're all nutters - and I would know, having been a member for lots of years - and their compromises might not all be to your tastes. Nevertheless, they ( nearly ) all know what they are doing, and certainly some of their good ideas for living aboard will fascinate you and find a way onto your own boat.

However, be warned. There is no known cure for the disease you now have....

Enjoi!

 

[ianat182]

Further to my previous posts, there is a thread on YBW that mentions a Macwester 27,which is an inboard engined bilge-keeler in the East Coast area for sale - see www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/PAA11786 for details. This is the kind of solid boat that you could love and cherish, plenty of room, good performer, safe and rugged, and in the right neck of the woods to view. Not a trailer sailer so a mooring needed, and the price looks good.
A club member has just sold his recently, in immaculate condition, for a bit higher price.

No connection.

ianat182

 

[Lakesailor]

This site lists trailer sailers and describes them. It's not exhaustive. but if you know one missing, add it.

The best plan if you are wanting to sail on and around the Broads is to get a boat designed for use there. Then look around local boatyards, creeks, boat clubs and see what people are sailing and if there are any boats for sale.
It could save you a lot of grief by buying a local boat that is already cruising in your chosen area.
You may find a good boat, a nice club to join, or a vacant mooring for your boat. You will also find launch sites and be able to start building up a picture of costs and benefits.

It sounds like my Seahawk 17 may be a bit small for you, but it was designed for broads use and there are quite a lot there, especially at Hickling.

 

[wytco0]

Any Nofolk members ?

Hi All this weekend I have been up in Norfolk and had a look around unfortunately I didn't find much. I went around the broads looking for sailing boats but I count not find many, I found a lot of big motor boats for sale in Brundell but not one sailing boat, nothing in Wroxham and nothing in Wells and Blakeney.

I think I must be looking in the wrong places !

Are there any members here who can give me some pointers of where I might find sailing boats in Norfolk? I am trying to find out what people are using and what's for sale, looking for boats in the 20-30 foot range.

Also can anyone recommend any sailing clubs ?

 

[Little Rascal]

Not Norfolk I know but try Lowestoft and Oulton Broad - probably more sea-going boats - definitely a few brokerages on the broad plus the Haven marina and club.

http://lowestoftboatsales.com/lowestoftboatsales/index.html

http://suffolk.boatshed.com/

Further a field you could try http://www.andyseedhouseboats.co.uk/ in Woodbridge (featured in one of Dylan's videos)

I would say you'd get more choice as you go south as you start to hit the marinas of the East Coast proper - the North Norfolk coast is probably just that bit quieter and less accessible, meaning less boats and less for sale.

Happy wandering!
Jon

 

[Ubergeekian]

Be warned; Unless you decide to trailer sail, you will quickly start to want something a bit bigger.

Not necessarily. I had twenty years fun out of my 21' Jouster (no reasonable offer refused).

 

[seadog30]

What size ?

I also assumed that to manage a boat single handed I was limited to something small. This is not true larger usually gives more stability, more sea-worthyness, and most of all comfort.

I had a 17foot bilge keel cruiser and did not enjoy the hardship, we moved up to a 20 foot Kingfisher, still no headroom and like camping in a pup tent. Moved up to a Macwester 26, stable seaworthy comfortable much easier to manage single handed.

A Macwester 26 with less than 3 foot draft bilge keels an inboard engine and a loo ! can cost anything from £3k to £8k and will be good for anything from creek hopping to channel crossing.

Good luck

 

[santeana]

Take a look at Tim Eastwood's yard at Upton Staithe, just off the River Bure. Many traditional Norfolk Broads yachts for hire and also runs a sailing school.

http://www.eastwood-whelpton.co.uk/

Eastwood Whelpton Ltd.
Boat Builders and Hirers
Upton Yacht Station,
Upton, Norwich
Norfolk NR13 6BN

 

[Stu Jackson]

Just a thought, but you might possibly be better to keep your boat in Suffolk, as there are loads more places to sail. There's sailing on rivers like The Orwell, The Stour and The Deben. The Blackwaters and Backwaters are just around the corner and many places are accessible no matter what the tide is doing.

If you are considering this area, I highly recommend reading Maurice Griffith's The Magic of the Swatchways. Good cruising tales, but also very helpful in defining the needs of the boat for sailing those rivers and the sands outside between the river mouths.

 

[wytco0]

Back Again with a new direction.

Hello back again, I still havnt done anything except read and search and read and search and constantly be amazed at how many different boats there are out there and then to wonder what I really want to do, and I just get more and more confused

I am now thinking of a greater adventure (it must be a middle age thing) and possibly buying something that I can oneday take on far longer distance trips.

But I know I need to get some experience first.

So why this big change of heart? well I think most of the 27ish size boats are a bit small to live on for more than a few days and I dont want to end up buying something that I quickly want to change for something else. I am thinking of buying something like a Nauticat 33 and then spending a year or so learning how to sail (and drive!!) it properly probably in UK waters before setting off on a 2-3 year RTW trip. During the training year I would like to live on the boat for several weeks at a time.

So my new question is is it really feasable to sail something like a nuaticat 33 solo? I wont be solo all the time but I dont want to end up only being able to sail with someone else.

Oh and of course any views on the nauticat 33 or simila class of yacht?

Thanks.

 

[KAL]

Hello back again, I still havnt done anything except read and search and read and search and constantly be amazed at how many different boats there are out there and then to wonder what I really want to do, and I just get more and more confused

I am now thinking of a greater adventure (it must be a middle age thing) and possibly buying something that I can oneday take on far longer distance trips.

But I know I need to get some experience first.

So why this big change of heart? well I think most of the 27ish size boats are a bit small to live on for more than a few days and I dont want to end up buying something that I quickly want to change for something else. I am thinking of buying something like a Nauticat 33 and then spending a year or so learning how to sail (and drive!!) it properly probably in UK waters before setting off on a 2-3 year RTW trip. During the training year I would like to live on the boat for several weeks at a time.

So my new question is is it really feasable to sail something like a nuaticat 33 solo? I wont be solo all the time but I dont want to end up only being able to sail with someone else.

Oh and of course any views on the nauticat 33 or simila class of yacht?

Thanks.

You are talking about a completely different class of boat altogether now...I'm not sure you know quite what you're after yet - no probs, it takes a lot of experimentation before you begin to find out for yourself - no-one else can tell you...

Why not try crewing for others for a while - the forum has a section for this. Also, join a dinghy sailing club; you might find your answer there.

 

[PeterGibbs]

My 2p'th

Day Skipper practical course would be a definite step in the right direction before you buy your own boat. If you've no more than a passing acquaintance with navigation, tides and collision regulations, the theory would be good to do first, though, as long as it suits your learning style, a theory book from the library could well be enough to get you up to speed.

Good luck!

Welcome to the show!
There are a number of schools around that offer weekend courses, whether this leads to a qual or not is less important at this stage. Once on board you ask all the questions that come to mind; this will help you narrow your choices and establish what's important for you, the accommodation, galley, power plant, sail rig etc etc.

This is a time of the year when folks are prepping their boats. Get down to a couple of yards and wander round chatting to owners only too glad to put down the paint brush for a couple of minutes!

And get to your library for a gander round recent copies of the sailing mags to see what's on offer locally. The mags occasionally do series on smaller boats - quite useful. There's quite a lot on this site too in the boats for sale dept.

Then, do come back here for further comment - loafers like me are always up to help newbies...really!

PWG

 

[TQA]

If you have not come across Charles Stock and his cruising exploits on "Shoal Waters" then a treat is in store.

http://shoal-waters.moonfruit.com/#

An excellent example of how Less can be More.

A replica of Shoal Waters sold for £3k recently; looked in good nick too.

 

[Searush]

The Nauticat is a lovely boat but well over your initial budget (by 3-4x) Running costs will be significant & could exceed 5-10kpa. You do NOT NEED something that price & size for comfort aboard, unless you have plans for parties every day.

Go look at the Westerly Padgeant & Centaur, much more maneagable & within your initial budget, but suitable for 2 people to use on longer holidays without coming to blows. We had a family of 4 in a smaller Warwick & later in the even smaller accom of an old Westerly 25.

Big, posh boats are enticing, but the fun tends to be inversely proportional to size, so be careful.

 

[ostell]

Here's a Westerly 21 (21' 6" really) that I've just sold for £7,500. Very comfortable and no problem staying away in it. Look at the pictures. The LOA doesn't give a very good impression of the space inside.