Newbie Trawler Question???

[Halcyon Yachts]

Hello all,

Wondering if anyone here can enlighten me a bit about the Trawler fuel economy compared to other MoBos. Are Trawlers really the best on fuel consumption? Are they good on fuel because they move slower? If you buy another type boat and cruise it slowly will you get the same fuel consumption as the Trawler, or not at all because of the design or something?

Are there any other spacious (traveling with kids) long range seaworthy boats that will also give very good fuel consumption?

Thanks for your help. Trying to sort this all out before I make my big move

If you are looking at Trawlers you could consider the Privateer...

http://www.privateeryachts.com/

I have delivered one to Palma from the UK and will be taking another straight from the boat show to Nice. They are very seaworthy and comfortable, have a huge fuel range and offer reasonable fuel economy.

Pete

 

[LittleShip]

She cannot get above 9 knots because she has tiddly engines! Actually she has one engine

You may find this link interesting as it is all the line drawings for your boat:- http://www.grandbanks.com/images/discovery/ownership/retiredmodels/32se/factorySpecs.zip

I have been an active member on that site for many years and I have all the drawings, but, many thanks all the same.

Tom

 

[Piers]

Just a matter of curiosity - do you sometimes cruise on one engine ??

I know my own boat is a lot cheaper on one engine, but even then I very seldom use only one engine.

This has been the subject of many a forum debate. However, I can answer from experience.

Overall, more fuel is burnt on Play d'eau operating on one engine at the same speed. To push the boat through the water at a given speed requires a specific HP. BUT,

1) Given the assymetric power effect, the boat will crab. That will absorb more power,

2) The rudder will be offset to adjust for the crabbing, which again will absorb more power.

3) Consideration must be given to the rudder stock being able to take the constant additional loading.

The only benefit for me was a reduction in engine hours. My fuel consumption was increased.

Piers

 

[piratos]

This has been the subject of many a forum debate. However, I can answer from experience.

Overall, more fuel is burnt on Play d'eau operating on one engine at the same speed. To push the boat through the water at a given speed requires a specific HP. BUT,

1) Given the assymetric power effect, the boat will crab. That will absorb more power,

2) The rudder will be offset to adjust for the crabbing, which again will absorb more power.

3) Consideration must be given to the rudder stock being able to take the constant additional loading.

The only benefit for me was a reduction in engine hours. My fuel consumption was increased.

Piers

OK - tks a lot.
If im not mistaking you mentioned your hull speed at ard 9.5 knots, but cruise often at just 8 knots ??

My theoretic displacement speed is just 8 knots, and normally pushing along at 8,5 knots - gives simply a better steering. Slowest speed on two engines is for me ard 5 knots, and when I have had to do that I have occasionally been running on one engine, but not at 'normal' cruisingspeed. Once the boat has picked up speed, i have not noticed any difference in steering (crabbing) which however might have been there if I would have tried slightly faster.

++

Saying that fuelconsumption is rather a matter of slowsteaming and not something special for a Trawler, I am afraid I have stepped on LittleShips feet - that was not my intention. Sorry for that LS

 

[rustybarge]

If you are looking at Trawlers you could consider the Privateer...

http://www.privateeryachts.com/

I have delivered one to Palma from the UK and will be taking another straight from the boat show to Nice. They are very seaworthy and comfortable, have a huge fuel range and offer reasonable fuel economy.

Pete

Hi Pete,
Does the privateer roll much in beam seas, esp: crossing the bay of Biscay...yikes!! At 7 or 8 kts does it steady up. What sort of fuel consumption do you get. Single or twin engines?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Oooh I know I said I wouldn't but............ she is hard chine and cant get above 9knts, it's designed as a displacement boat

I will admit that she has quite a flat bottom once past half way but as for semi displacement......... come on? This is the best picture of the bottom does it look semi to you/anybody ??

I don't know why I'm bothering.


Tom

I'm with mapism. To me, a hull with such obvious hard chines aft is designed to provide some lift at the stern and therefore the designer probably envisaged putting larger engines into the boat at some stage to push it into the SD speed range. In fact thats pretty much what GB have done over the years. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think GB have offered a boat which they've marketed as a full displacement boat for many years

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Hi Pete,

Does the privateer roll much in beam seas. At 7 or 8 kts does it steady up.

Anyone know much about the company either? I've always liked the look of their Trawler yachts but the contacts I've had with them at exhibitions and their website doesn't fill me with the confidence that they are a substantial outfit at all

 

[jimg]

I'm with mapism. To me, a hull with such obvious hard chines aft is designed to provide some lift at the stern and therefore the designer probably envisaged putting larger engines into the boat at some stage to push it into the SD speed range. In fact thats pretty much what GB have done over the years. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think GB have offered a boat which they've marketed as a full displacement boat for many years

GB have never made a full displacement boat. Just some with low power that effectively travel at displacemnt speed.

 

[rustybarge]

Anyone know much about the company either? I've always liked the look of their Trawler yachts but the contacts I've had with them at exhibitions and their website doesn't fill me with the confidence that they are a substantial outfit at all

Hi Deleted User,
The dutch make the best steel boats, full stop. But inland waterway type.
sea going vessels that's a different question?

So to sum up.......@2.5 mpg you can choose either 55' displacement at 7 kts or 33' planing at 20 kts.
You pay your money, make your choice.

What about a 11m catarmaran like the bw seacat that doesn't roll at displacement speeds? seems to do about 2.5 mpg.

 

[MapisM]

The dutch make the best steel boats, full stop.
But inland waterway type.
sea going vessels that's a different question?

You bet.
I've been onboard some steel trawlers built in Nova Scotia, among others: 6 fully watertight and fireproof compartments, double integral diesel bunker hull, half inch thick safety glasses throughout (with inserts for metal storm shutters on top of them, for good measure), self righting, and equipped with belts in the p/house seats - go figure.
Nice as they can be Dutch steel boats, if I had to cross the northern Atlantic I know which MoBo I'd rather use...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Hi Deleted User,
The dutch make the best steel boats, full stop. But inland waterway type.
sea going vessels that's a different question?

Yes thats a very good point. As far as I can see, virtually all Dutch boat builders started out building inland waterway vessels but some like Privateer, Linnsen, Van d Valk now market some boats in their range as offshore cruisers and I do wonder whether this is just marketing hype or there are genuine differences in their hull designs, not just bigger engines. I would love to see a comparative test by a boating mag taking say a Privateer 52, Nordhavn 52 and a good SD boat like a Fleming 55 on an extended cruise across, say, Biscay, and come back with some definitive judgements on seakeeping and comfort at sea. Of course that is never going to happen because of the cost

 

[Erik C]

Another example of a Dutch build off shore line of yachts.

http://www.en.sturieryachts.nl/sturier-555-cs/

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Another example of a Dutch build off shore line of yachts.

http://www.en.sturieryachts.nl/sturier-555-cs/

V interesting. Thanks for that

 

[rustybarge]

very interest boats...cat 'a' no less, but what on earth does this mean in English... ' This also makes the yacht suitable for sailors who seek more comfort, as their own action radius will not be affected.'

 

[Erik C]

very interest boats...cat 'a' no less, but what on earth does this mean in English... ' This also makes the yacht suitable for sailors who seek more comfort, as their own action radius will not be affected.'

Most of their clients are ex sailors, used to be able to make long trips without refueling.

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

Hi Pete,
Does the privateer roll much in beam seas, esp: crossing the bay of Biscay...yikes!! At 7 or 8 kts does it steady up. What sort of fuel consumption do you get. Single or twin engines?

The 52, which I have delivered to Palma and back (from the UK), has fin stabilisers which worked well. Sea on the beam was of course the least comfortable and my main complaint would be that some of the finishing hadn't accounted for much roll: A few minor adjustments necessary, such as clips for the doors and higher rails on the surfaces in the galley.

Biscay was fine, and the Privateer is an extremely good sea boat. The Privateer I am taking down to Nice is the 50ft version which has a seakeeper (gyro) stabilising system - so it will be interesting to see whether it is much more effective.

The 52 has twin engines and consumed (from memory) around 18 - 20 lts an hour cruising at a conservative 7kts.

Our delivery to the Netherlands from Falmouth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnLPJjIDfVo

Pete

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

Anyone know much about the company either? I've always liked the look of their Trawler yachts but the contacts I've had with them at exhibitions and their website doesn't fill me with the confidence that they are a substantial outfit at all

I have been to their yard and they are a small but highly dedicated company (typical to many boat builders in the Netherlands). I have worked with two of their clients and they seem to offer excellent customer service. They make a specialist product and in my opinion are very competent at what they do!

Pete

 

[rustybarge]

Hi Pete, As somebody who actually makes sea passages, which sort of boat would you choose in the 10 meter range....swift trawler 34 (semi-displacement), cheetah catamaran /outboards, steel dutch 10meter with bilge keels.

Presuming cruise speed of 7-8 kts.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

This has been the subject of many a forum debate. However, I can answer from experience.

Overall, more fuel is burnt on Play d'eau operating on one engine at the same speed. To push the boat through the water at a given speed requires a specific HP. BUT,

1) Given the assymetric power effect, the boat will crab. That will absorb more power,

2) The rudder will be offset to adjust for the crabbing, which again will absorb more power.

3) Consideration must be given to the rudder stock being able to take the constant additional loading.

The only benefit for me was a reduction in engine hours. My fuel consumption was increased.

Piers

Just to give another view on using 1 engine only, I recently completed a passage on 1 engine only on my boat (Ferretti 53 planing hull) and the results were quite interesting in terms of fuel economy

Port engine only at minimum in gear idle speed

6kts speed as given by GPS (negligible tide effect in Croatia)

5.7 litres per hour on the operating port engine which gives a consumption of less than 1 litre per nautical mile at 6 kts and equivalent to 4.8nmpg. This compares to 3.5nmpg at 7.7kts with both engines in minimum in gear idle speed so single engine running is definitely more economical at displacement speed on my boat

As for steering, IMHO as planing boats generally don't have a keel and have relatively small rudders compared to SD and D boats, single engine running is easier. At least on my boat I was able to keep a straight course with only a moderate amount of compensating rudder

 

[MapisM]

5.7 litres per hour on the operating port engine which gives a consumption of less than 1 litre per nautical mile at 6 kts and equivalent to 4.8nmpg. This compares to 3.5nmpg at 7.7kts with both engines in minimum in gear idle speed so single engine running is definitely more economical at displacement speed on my boat

Either ways, that's an impressive result indeed.
I'm actually skeptical that anyone in real world would be able to make a long passage at tick-over with a planing boat, for various reasons, but your point that a P hull can be more economical than a full D hull of similar length (which typically means much higher weight/draft/wet surface/drag, of course) is valid.

I'd be curious to hear from LateStarter (or any other engines guru) about the effects of running for hours a big diesel at idle and with extremely low load, though.