Newbie - am I being too unrealistic?

[Obi]

Anyway - I just found a 1982 RYA Navigation Manual in amongst my old books, and The Complete Sailing Handbook by Jeremy Evans. This is not the first time I've heard the call of the water. I have my reading material for a while then.

Some topics translate to books well, some do not. If you find the book is not clear, don't fret, nav is pretty easy really. Find someone to show you, preferably a RYA C.I. or Y.M.I.

I've a book on astral nav and to be honest i feel someone could show me in less than an hour what it has taken me years to understand from the book. Similarly I have a golf book - how to swing like a pro, it's excellent but 90% of it is waffle and noise and just obfuscates the salient points in 'trying to sound clever' - or trying to communicate all the science and facts, when some of us just need the cheat-sheets

My view on sailing - there is nothing really that complex in what we do, but there are a lot of skills and knowledge to pick up but most of it is fairly common sense and straight forward.

 

[ylop]

A point to ponder...

If i was travelling the length of the country living on a boat, whether on the canals or coastal I would want a bike, probably an ebike these days, to give my the option to leave the boat where it is and travel to a shop, postoffice, cafe, pub or just explore a little bit further than by foot or get to a train station / bus stop. So storing a bike, charging an e-bike and easily being able to get it on/off a dinghy (if coastal rather than canal) would be key considerations.

 

[Sea Change]

A point to ponder...

If i was travelling the length of the country living on a boat, whether on the canals or coastal I would want a bike, probably an ebike these days, to give my the option to leave the boat where it is and travel to a shop, postoffice, cafe, pub or just explore a little bit further than by foot or get to a train station / bus stop. So storing a bike, charging an e-bike and easily being able to get it on/off a dinghy (if coastal rather than canal) would be key considerations.

Yup. We use our folding bikes extensively. It adds hugely to the range you can explore, you can get to better shops, and you're not tied to public transport or Uber fares. We generally leave them locked up at the dinghy dock unless we think that would be unsafe.

Doesn't have to anything fancy, it'll just start rusting anyway. I bought a very basic Apollo single speed with 16" wheels, as new, for £40, and it's still just about going, 5yrs later. My son uses it now as he outgrew his kiddie sized bike, and I've picked up an aluminium framed bike with 20" wheels and six gears. Quite a useful upgrade. But I wouldn't want to spend too much on it, because then I'd not want to leave it ashore. They are certainly a bit of a faff in the dinghy. We put ours in old sail bags to stop chain grease getting everywhere.

 

[Obi]

A point to ponder...

If i was travelling the length of the country living on a boat, whether on the canals or coastal I would want a bike, probably an ebike these days, to give my the option to leave the boat where it is and travel to a shop, postoffice, cafe, pub or just explore a little bit further than by foot or get to a train station / bus stop. So storing a bike, charging an e-bike and easily being able to get it on/off a dinghy (if coastal rather than canal) would be key considerations.

It's also a really nice way to get around from your yacht, it feels really fast after 7knots for hours/days/weeks.

My bike was brefily chained and locked to a mast pulpit/granny bar when it was stolen whilst I berthed in a secure marina. My fault, I guess marina's are not that secure/could have happened anywhere. My point, in the future I would keep my bike below decks.

 

[CreekySteve]

A point to ponder...

If i was travelling the length of the country living on a boat, whether on the canals or coastal I would want a bike, probably an ebike these days, to give my the option to leave the boat where it is and travel to a shop, postoffice, cafe, pub or just explore a little bit further than by foot or get to a train station / bus stop. So storing a bike, charging an e-bike and easily being able to get it on/off a dinghy (if coastal rather than canal) would be key considerations.

Hi - I've had an ebike for a few years now to get fitter without overstraining myself without having to join a gym. I use it on half-power most of the time, using a bit of extra boost on steeper inclines. I love it. The speed cut-off as been overridden which massively increases the enjoyability although not really increasing the speed much, it just means you don't hit a wall at 15.5 mph. I've done nearly 8000 miles since I bought it, which is about 4 times round the UK I think. I did consider getting a bike trailer tent and just going, but recharging is the problem. It is heavy - 20 kilos, so I think I might have to look at a lighter weight fold-up one for on a boat and getting it in and out of a dinghy.

 

[CreekySteve]

Yup. We use our folding bikes extensively. It adds hugely to the range you can explore, you can get to better shops, and you're not tied to public transport or Uber fares. We generally leave them locked up at the dinghy dock unless we think that would be unsafe.

Doesn't have to anything fancy, it'll just start rusting anyway. I bought a very basic Apollo single speed with 16" wheels, as new, for £40, and it's still just about going, 5yrs later. My son uses it now as he outgrew his kiddie sized bike, and I've picked up an aluminium framed bike with 20" wheels and six gears. Quite a useful upgrade. But I wouldn't want to spend too much on it, because then I'd not want to leave it ashore. They are certainly a bit of a faff in the dinghy. We put ours in old sail bags to stop chain grease getting everywhere.

I'm completely paranoid about my bike being stolen. It's really common around here. If I'm going to leave it anywhere it's only briefly outside the local Asian food store - D-locked to a lamp post and never left for more than 15 minutes. I leave the lights on so it looks like it's not being left for long too. The thieves are a real pain though, as I'd get rid of my car if I could leave the bike safely.

 

[CreekySteve]

I've been looking at yacht clubs on the Medway and the eponymously named Medway Yacht Club seems pretty reasonable if taking one of the mooring buoys on top of membership. They offer some training too. I'm not sure if they'd accept residential use though, and I'd have to generate my own electricity, but even running a little generator in tandem with solar panels would be cheaper than the fees at one of the marinas - and good practice for actually setting out on an adventure!

My instinct is that I'd be initially cautious, but once I felt reasonably confident with the basics, prepared to learn on the fly - which is my usual way of going about new things. I taught myself to drive when I was a kid by borrowing my mum's car when she wasn't around and just driving it slowly around the block a few times. Or she'd take me to a big car park on a Sunday (when shops used to close on Sundays) and let me drive it around for a while. I learnt the basics though driving the dumper truck around the building sites where my dad worked. I was five the first time the hod carrier sat me on his lap and let me steer.

 

[CreekySteve]

No I am not. Why do you always take things out of context and try to infer something very different from what was intended? The OP is on a limited budget with initially ambitious expectations. In that context a GB is not the most suitable boat - but that does not mean it is not seaworthy nor comfortable, but just not suitable for a middle aged beginner on a limited budget to take single handed around the UK (from Cornwall to the Hebrides in his own words).

It is always best to read the whole story rather than pick bits out and claim that they mean something very different from what was intended.

People like the OP come on here for advice and it is best to give pros and cons of different approaches - in this case everything from narrowboats to ocean going multihulls. Whilst you may be happy with what you do with your motorboat, the fact is that sailing boats are generally far more versatile for extended cruising, particularly on a limited budget.

Middle aged _ you're being kind. I remember those care-free middle aged days...

 

[CreekySteve]

You’ve got some good advice already (and are starting to see that the problem with advice is not everyone agrees) but I’d just go back to the advice others are giving on not losing the land property completely. At 60 boating is hopefully fun, and cold winters part of the adventure. At 65 perhaps the fifth year trying to find somewhere to hide out the storms is less fun. By 70 you might be questioning if 365 days a year afloat is still for you. At 75 you would be very much in the minority as a full time Uk live aboard and by 80 one of a handful at most. The problem is boats devalue and take a chunk of upkeep - I think you should budget on all of that being lost money. Meanwhile property prices tend to only go up, and usually faster than inflation - so you will never be able to buy back in to it.

If I were in your shoes I’d consider finding a 1 bed flat in a touristy area and rent it as an Airbnb (paying someone else to do all the work), you won’t get rich but your capital would continue to grow and it would probably pay for winter storage for the boat and give you the option to return to a roof over your head in the off season when the air bnb was quiet. I don’t know you; but I could see myself managing 3-5 yrs live aboard full time if I was restricted to Uk waters, but if it was apr-oct that might be 8-10yrs!

Finally I don’t think you need 40’ to live aboard solo in the Uk. Full standing headroom would be my entry level requirement, but you can do that in 32’. The fuel discussion depends how often you will actually relocate - if it’s once a week, you may end up spending more on fuel for power generation and heating than travelling. Beware red diesel is not as cheap as you think - after applying the HMRC standard propulsion split it’s often about the same price as supermarket road diesel.

If you do decide to go coastal - think carefully about your dinghy arrangements. You may end up actually using this more than the mothership so - size maters, storage and or launching matters, propulsion matters…

RYA courses are cheaper than you expect but really from laser sailor who doesn’t know what the kicker is for you might be best starting competent crew, day skipper theory, day skipper practical. Costs will add up - but if you can’t afford those over the time until the house is sold, I wonder if you are realistic about affording boating costs - it’s a constant battle with the sea.

Kicker - I think I meant the Cunningham - it came back to me later

But I'm absorbing everyone's advice, and I'm really grateful for it. You're all very kind for sharing your knowledge and time like this. Honestly, I think the basic technical parts of getting a boat moving in the rough direction you want, and up the right way, aren't as difficult as the imagination and fear of judgement from others at getting it wrong can be. It's the little niceties like tides and weather, understanding the vernacular and knowing what that buoy means and when to put a reef in the sail and avoiding putting the boat in a reef, or why there's water in the boat as well as out of it, and a thousand other things I haven't even thought of yet. But if it was easy it wouldn't be anywhere near as exciting,.

I think I'm becoming more sensible to the costs of having a boat, but I'm pretty canny with my money, and get pleasure out off eeking it out. I'm definitely swayed towards owning a good sailing boat now, rather than a MB. I have no intention of blowing everything on the boat, and will reserve sufficient capital in some form of safe investment for my dotage (assuming I survive that long). I had a shock today when I saw that a full set of sails for a Prout cat would be around £20k, so I know it's not necessarily a cheap option to choose sail. The way I look at it, some people when they retire spend their money on holidays and cruises, and fair enough if that's their dream, but for me, I want something a bit more all-in, and I've always fancied living and travelling in my own boat or a camper. I hate driving these days because the roads are too busy,even in the remote places while the sea still seems quite wide and relatively free of hullabaloo. If I'm wrong, I'll find out pretty quickly and take another path to oblivion. I saw a nice little cottage for sale at a good price in Carradale - overlooking the harbour - and I did think that could be an option with a smallish boat on a trailer in the garden. All options are open.

 

[Obi]

It's amazing what one does not know. I remember one of the first times I crossed the shipping lanes in the English Channel (long before I got my YM). I thought it was all fine.

Many moons after whilst being trained I remember the YMI being deeply concerned about the way another candidate was handling the shipping lanes.

I reflected on how I had done it previously and I still have moments of heeby-jeebies thinking about what could have gone wrong that first time.

So whilst I am all up for self development, getting some confidence and then going for the 'learning to fly'.. be bloody careful.

Fancy removing the skin from your forearms because you held the sheets in a certain way? Didn't someone die recently from getting fingers caught in a power winch? The list of risks and dangers caused by improper use is endless. Be bloody careful if you intend to self teach. Gas in the bilges, how to handle an overpowered sail. I don't know, there is just a lot of risk and danger and being unware of those is the easiest way to get caught out.

The route to Day Skipper is great, it de-mystifies so much of the operational management of the yacht from a day time perspective, whilst teaching you some of the dangers and risks. Then there is no harm going for the YM and getting all the additional finessing on the skills you've built up, as well as some additional knowledge, and skills. Even if it is just for the berthing practice in windy tidal waters, rather than trying to figure out how and why it messed up, there is an instructor to help you learn how to handle it. I'm pleased to say my training has enabled me to never bash a boat in to the dock as well as lots of other things I have coped with that I might never have without the knowledge and training I was given.

As for costs. If you have £10, probably best to spend £2 on a boat. Multiply as needed to meet your budget.

Cars vs boats. I recall being off shore in Biscay in rough and stressing conditions with 30 miles to get into The Gironde and thinking, 'this could take ten hours' and reflecting that in my previous vehicle, a car it would take me minutes. It's a very different consideration to a car, even though both are vehicles capable of being used to travel and offering freedoms.

 

[Sea Change]

I had a shock today when I saw that a full set of sails for a Prout cat would be around £20k

Where did you get that price from?
Last year I put a new main on my 47ft boat, it cost about £2500. The genoa would be a similar cost. And sails should be good for ten years or more if you don't abuse them.

 

[Sandydog2]

if you got that price for sails from the Sailing Brothers fundraiser you may have misunderstood. They raised far more than the price of the sails (I think they said the ones they have ordered from China were £2700).

Their first boat was a good example of what you can do on low budget. The Prout seems to be rather a disaster, although that is attracting a bigger audience. They boast they have had no training but actually it really shows. They have huge gaps in their knowledge and often do extremely dangerous things, so watch a few other channels as well.

Sailing Florence for example.

 

[V1701]

CreekySteve I just sent you a PM...

 

[Sea Change]

Sailing Florence for example.

The only channel I bother to keep up with, they just quietly get on with it without making daft mistakes.

 

[dunedin]

…….

I think I'm becoming more sensible to the costs of having a boat, but I'm pretty canny with my money, and get pleasure out off eeking it out. I'm definitely swayed towards owning a good sailing boat now, rather than a MB. I have no intention of blowing everything on the boat, and will reserve sufficient capital in some form of safe investment for my dotage (assuming I survive that long). I had a shock today when I saw that a full set of sails for a Prout cat would be around £20k, so I know it's not necessarily a cheap option to choose sail. …

There are lots of boats around to buy, so plenty of options.

£20k for new sails is definitely excessive - but a full set of new sails are rarely essential after buying a second hand boat.
You will see a lot of threads on here and the general advice is don’t buy a wreck but buy something with as many of the expensive bits in good condition - as buying new stuff for old boats is always expensive. Best keep looking for a boat that has had the big things renewed.
Sadly many spend money on boats then health or other things get in the way of using it. These can be bargains. And worth being prepared to travel to find the right one (within the UK only sadly - can of worms now importing from EU).
But again try to get as much experience on sailing other boats, courses etc before leaping in, IMHO.

 

[PlanB]

I second a lot of what Ylop says.
In our mid 50s we retired early and bought a boat (45 foot flybridge, as it happens), with no previous experience) and spent three years learning, practising and planning before we took off for the Med.
Living aboard in a Medway marina was no fun in the winter - it got very cold, We were glad we had a home to go to.
We had 12 happy years living aboard in Spain, but them I was glad I had a home to go to in the UK when my partner died and I got cancer.
You've already had a health scare - to have used up all your capital and then not be able to live on the boat without a safety net is very risky.

 

[Wansworth]

Just a small boat that can take the ground lying against a scrubbing berth ,or bilge keels,forget the bike and walk and use public transport,pleanty of anchours and warps

 

[Sea Change]

Just a small boat that can take the ground lying against a scrubbing berth ,or bilge keels,forget the bike and walk and use public transport,pleanty of anchours and warps

Everybody will have their own idea of what the best size and type of boat is.
One thing I've noticed is that it's quite rare for people to downsize, unless that accompanies a move from full to part time cruising. Once you're accustomed to a certain standard of living, it's hard to go back.

I can imagine living in moderate comfort, solo, on ~26ft or above. Your limitations are likely to be tankage, storage, and space for solar. If you're permanently based in a marina these constraints can be very easily dealt with, especially if you have a van ashore that can be used for extra storage.

At the other end of the scale, I have many friends who wouldn't dream of giving up their 45ft+ catamarans, with washing machines, air conditioning, etc.

 

[Wansworth]

Everybody will have their own idea of what the best size and type of boat is.
One thing I've noticed is that it's quite rare for people to downsize, unless that accompanies a move from full to part time cruising. Once you're accustomed to a certain standard of living, it's hard to go back.

I can imagine living in moderate comfort, solo, on ~26ft or above. Your limitations are likely to be tankage, storage, and space for solar. If you're permanently based in a marina these constraints can be very easily dealt with, especially if you have a van ashore that can be used for extra storage.

At the other end of the scale, I have many friends who wouldn't dream of giving up their 45ft+ catamarans, with washing machines, air conditioning, etc.

Yes I agree my comments are really from observation of myself with very basic skills for cruising without maintenance worries which seem to be the Bain of skippers .I had an Albin Vega which was perfect for one long term ,maybe a 30 footer or two for summer only use.

 

[peterhull]

Hello all - I'm seriously contemplating selling my property and buying a boat to live aboard year round, cruising the UK, and maybe beyond.

I have very limited experience on the water. I do have RYA 2 powerboat and dinghy sailing certificates but both were gained on a little Scottish loch many years ago. I'm 60, but aching for an adventure. I have no ties, other than this property I inherited, and I've always fancied living on my own boat, but never had the opportunity until now. It's tempting to tell myself it's too late, but realistically the choice is between sitting in a comfortable house and waiting for death, or getting out and doing something exciting with the last bit of my life. I did have a little bit of a heart attack a few years ago, so travel health insurance probably means I need to be based in the UK thanks to Brexit.

I'm torn as to what kind of boat I want, and would be best for me. I've been looking at smaller Dutch barges with Cat C rating for a bit of coastal hopping and river/canal exploring in comfort, and displacement trawlers like the Grand Banks or Corvettes... I know I want a boat that I can move about on (and in), and not just sit in a marina or long term mooring. Ideally, I'd like to continuous cruise visiting everywhere from the Hebrides to Cornwall. I think the fuel consumption on a faster planing boat or even a semi-displacement like a Nelson would be too high for my budget and instincts. I can get my head around 5 litres per hour but 100 is not something I'd consider! So Nelsons are out. I realise that means I'm going to be doing 8 knots or so, which means I'm going to be limited to decent weather windows for any coastal trips in short hops. That's not such a terrible limitation though, considering I want to visit different places without planning each stop for the whole trip. I'm thinking getting to know a boat on the rivers and canals might be best to start with, and cheaper too if I continuously cruise. I'd be looking at using sheltered anchorages as much as possible if coastal cruising.

I understand that GRP needs less maintenance than steel, but I can see advantages for me with the steel barges over the GRP trawlers. Size and flexibility of layout is a major consideration, and the robustness of steel over GRP. I love the look of the Grand Banks - but I'm not sure it's something I'd want to live up to. I'd probably prefer something a bit more rough and ready (with a washing machine, a dishwasher and a solid fuel burner).

Sorry, no doubt I've already written more than people want to read (and probably have read similar for the thousandth time). I guess what I really need now is to know where to start. Once I sell my home I want to get a boat more or less straight away so I'm not wasting money on renting somewhere. What's the best way to meet local boat owners? I live beside the Medway Estuary and there are plenty of marinas, but they all seem to be unwelcoming to non-boat owners. What's a good way of getting an 'in'?

Thanks in advance for any advice, and I'm sure there are going to be plenty of eyes rolling into the back of heads - sorry again for that!

Steve

I have never lived a yacht permanently but I would not sell your property. Historically properties tend to be appreciating assets but that may not always be the case. A boat is normally a depreciating asset and/or needs constant high maintenance standard.
I might be biased but I would not consider a gas guzzling motor cruising boat.

Two reasons
1 expense of fuel
2 range.
A sailing yacht has two forms of propulsion , sails and and engine but not so spacious.

You could cross oceans with a sailing yacht but without huge wealth and a super yacht you would not get that far in a modest sized motor yacht.
The boat market is more depressed than I have seen it in my lifetime, and I am 78 !!

Owners are trying to sell them but they are more sellers than buyers, so this depresses the price.

There was a lovely 40ft SAGA for sale near Plymouth. It looked good value with lots of included equipment for Ocean liveaboard sailing.
Might be worth a look. I have no vested interest by the way.

The other option maybe is to join a sailing club offer to crew for a yacht owner.
Good luck.