Newbie after advice

[Lawesdas]

Hi all,

I have no idea if this is in the right forum apologies if its not.

I'm after a bit of advice from all you seasoned sailers!

I have wanted to get in to sailing for a few years and haven't done anything about it, so rather than wait for the right time etc I figure I best just start we're I am and go from there.

I'm looking at some small boats 19 - 22' to learn on cruisers rather than a dingy to take the kids out on (6,4 and 1) that we can day sail and maybe overnight on at a squeeze with 5 of us. ​I'm not against dingy sailing though to learn so may well join a local club.​

I'm currently looking at either a Jag 22, Pegasus prelude 19/20 and others a similar size based upon local availability.

Both mentioned above are lift keelers​ due to shallow parts of the broads and local coast I guess I'm best off with either lift keelers or bilge?​

I'll mostly be sailing on the Norfolk Broads, I'm veering towards trailer sailing than getting a mooring to keep the cost down a bit.

What are common issues with these boats, the lifting keel is a bit of a concern (moving parts)

One has roller reefing/furling gear one doesn't ​whats the rough cost of fitting and what would the time/hassle saving be?​

Any other advice?

What about towing/launching vehicles? Is a normal car suitable?

 

[Yorkshire Exile]

Lawesdas - I'm sure others will have plenty of advice on aspects of this but three things come immediately to mind. If you want to sail on the Broads then sailing perfomnce is very important so I would avoid a bilge keeler. Yachts designed for the Broads (like mine) are rarely suitable for sailing at sea and sea going yachts are not perfect for the Broads (though I recomemnd you look at a Pegasus). Going to sea in a small yacht with young children is not realy viable but perhaps you mean you would only take them when on the Broads. Suddenly discovered an unexpected fourth point - a draught up to 4ft is OK on the Broads.

And if you wnat a traditional small Broads yacht, mine is for sale!

 

[PaulRainbow]

Hi all,

I have no idea if this is in the right forum apologies if its not.

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I'm after a bit of advice from all you seasoned sailers!

Oh, can't help you there then as i'm on my first sailboat, after years of mobos. But i'll comment where i can

I have wanted to get in to sailing for a few years and haven't done anything about it, so rather than wait for the right time etc I figure I best just start we're I am and go from there.

You will receive advice from some to join a club, learn in a dinghy, buy a 12 foot boat, learn some more, do some courses, join another club, do some racing blah blah blah. By the time you're ready for a 22 footer you'll be 102. My advice is to ignore that and buy the boat you intend to finish up with. You could join a cruising club to have a go on a few boats and see what you like or you could study and research (as you're doing here) and take a pot shot at what you fancy. Probably be the wrong boat, but that would likely be the case however you do it, but it would still be fun and you'd quickly learn what you really want.

I'm looking at some small boats 19 - 22' to learn on cruisers rather than a dingy to take the kids out on (6,4 and 1) that we can day sail and maybe overnight on at a squeeze with 5 of us. ​I'm not against dingy sailing though to learn so may well join a local club.​

Opps

I'm currently looking at either a Jag 22, Pegasus prelude 19/20 and others a similar size based upon local availability.

Don't limit yourself to local availability, you have a car, don't be afraid to use it.

Both mentioned above are lift keelers​ due to shallow parts of the broads and local coast I guess I'm best off with either lift keelers or bilge?​

I'll mostly be sailing on the Norfolk Broads, I'm veering towards trailer sailing than getting a mooring to keep the cost down a bit.

What are common issues with these boats, the lifting keel is a bit of a concern (moving parts)

Not familiar with those two, but i wouldn't worry about having a lift keel. It does have moving parts, but a bit of maintenance will keep that working ok. I would avoid the broads though. Some very nice rivers on the East Coast, where you don't have to dodge the hire boats and idiots.

One has roller reefing/furling gear one doesn't ​whats the rough cost of fitting and what would the time/hassle saving be?​

Roller furling would be a must for me. I'd buy a boat that had it, retrofitting is straight forward, but the cost will most likely not stack up.

Any other advice?

Buy the biggest you can. Don't buy a project. Have something with a few luxuries, should as a loo, cooker, running water etc. If your family don't like it, you will not get much chance to use it, Mrs isn't usually keen on living on pot noodles for the weekend and peeing in a bucket

What about towing/launching vehicles? Is a normal car suitable?

If it's a "normal" Citroen C1, probably not. If it's rated to legally tow the boat and trailer, then as long as it has the traction to launch at your chosen slip, then no problem.

I would seriously consider a mooring, even a swinging mooring. Towing to the slip, launching, putting the trailer away, sailing for a few hours and the repeating in reverse will soon become tedious, in my opinion.

 

[Otter]

Lawesdas, firstly welcome and secondly your first few posts will be delayed by the moderator.

We have a young family and the two most important things are only sail when it's fun and never let the boat heal, so buy something that doesn't do it much! They will love the broads, and the Orwell, Deben, Blyth, Ore and Alde. A big cockpit is best on a smaller boat for a big tent and a camp out on board but have somewhere sanitary for SWMBO to go to the loo!

Buy your first boat and get cracking but whatever you do buy a popular brand and spec because you'll sell it in a year for something bigger and you'll want it to sell quickly.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

A friend of mine had a Fox Terrier, centreboard version, and spoke highly of her. Previously he had a Prelude. Both required a substantial towing vehicle however. Would take your family group at a (considerable) squash.
Agree with post3, avoid the " course" route. By the time you are capable of sailing competently you will have spent the equivalent of the boat you intend to buy ( or well towards it)! Try to find a crewing job for a competent sailor and look, watch and listen. Sooner or later your skipper will give you the helm when he/she is certain you have grasped the principles, particularly of where the wind is coming from!

 

[Lawesdas]

Thanks for the replies, some really helpful suggestions.

As for towing vehicle I have a large ish van, it will tow no problem, it's just the launching/retrieval I'm concerned about - having looked into moorings and etc I may not be much better off with a trailer and with the added hassle the boat will probably get used less - I guess I will probably end up with a summer mooring anyway to avoid the hassle so really am only saving winter storage/lift/clean which may or may not be necessary.

I tend to agree with the "avoid courses" route, they have their place but in most cases are padded out with nonsense to suck more £ from the unsuspecting victim. Yes you need to know how to be safe etc but nothing can replace actual experience.

The toilet is a concern I know the Mrs will have this higher up her list of "necessities" than I, also the kids always need a poo at the most in opportune moments!

I am also aware that I will want a bigger one/will buy the wrong one first but that's part of the fun and again can only really be learn't through experience - re-sale is also going to be a key concern so I'll take the advice of "buying a popular brand.

 

[ashtead]

Welcome to the forum. Lots of views advice to be found here but it might help to draw up a checklist of features available in the size selected so you can compare what's on market easily. Each possible might have some of these features but if you are constrained by time and distance it might assist . It's well worth going to a couple of secondhand boat shows or local yards with the Mrs to see what attracts and what doesn't . Once you have set a budget allowing for inevitable works and your preferred viewing distance your actual choice might be limited so set aside some time for viewings and use the info supplied by sellers to form a list of questions for other models . Much is written on topic of rhe Sailfish btw so maybe use this or the Jag as a comparator for other models in terms of facilities. Ultimately I suspect choice might be driven by taking to local sailors though in your chosen area. Good luck with search

 

[C08]

You have to remember that a trailer sailer is not necessarily the same as a boat you can trailer. Raising a mast, setting rigging etc, fitting sails etc can be quite a fag and take a chunk out of your first and last day sailing. If you do a lot of weekend sailing you may quickly tire of that and the towing, depending on the roads you use and then wish you had a cheap mooring. Also there is the problem of storing a boat on a trailer and some LA have regulations about caravans and boats on driveways. A bigger boat is more stable and roomy for a family but becomes less suitable for a trailer. Needs some thought and very much a personal choice involving distance to tow, room to store, finance considerations, availability of moorings. Just a thought

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The Broads must provide some of the most challenging sailing in the UK! Fine in the wide open Broads themselves, but most of the rivers are narrow and in places winding. So you if you need to tack along a river, you can have great trouble getting steering way before you need to tack again! Being inland you also experience sudden wind shifts as you go past windbreaks such as buildings or trees. And in addition to the natural difficulties, the Broads are full of people who are handling a motor boat for the first time after a small amount of training by the hire company. They may not have come to terms with the fact that boats don't have brakes, and can move sideways in a breeze. If I were you, I'd avoid the Broads until you have learnt how to sail in less challenging waters.

 

[kacecar]

You say you'd consider first learning to sail, perhaps in a dinghy at a local club.

If you are already local to the Broads then you might want to consider joining the club on Wroxham Broad, a relatively safe and reasonably sized bit of water. There are all sorts of boats to sail there but, in particular, there's an active fleet of "Yeoman" sailing boats. These are open 20foot keel boats that were designed for use on the Broads - they race but they are also used for day cruises.

Learning about sailing in a Yeoman rather than a dinghy might be useful as they are quite large and heavy, so more like the small cruiser you are considering buying. There might not be a formal course but the Yeoman boats are actively raced so a willing volunteer, even a beginner, should be able to get a spot as crew - and good crew are sometimes able to take the helm occasionally. It won't teach you everything but you'll learn a lot, and while you are on the water the club will be a nice place for your family to amuse themselves. Some of the Yeoman fleet occasionally travels to other venues so you'll also be able to learn a bit about the challenges involved in trailer sailing.

Just a thought.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

PS: Clearly, sailing on the Broads is VERY different to sailing on the sea. Learning on the Broads won't teach you about the extra challenges sea sailing brings, but you will pick up directly useful skills and it will give you a chance to check out whether or not your family is going to like sailing enough to make the transition to sailing in open water and real waves.