New Yachts - should we get them surveyed before delivery?

[StewartGW]

I have owned several new yachts, including some that claim to be built to very high standards. Each one has has numerous issues that have been dealt with post delivery. In a friends case, their new boat failed to have the teak deck they paid for. We have had instances of the wrong engine size being fitted, dangerous keel failings and just plain poor workmanship that didn't reveal itself until after the delivery trip. We should be able to trust boat builders but we can't. Professional surveys are expensive but are they needed before we take delivery of a brand new boat?

 

[pvb]

Welcome to the forums!

Your question is largely academic, as most new boats are paid for in full prior to delivery, so a survey probably wouldn't reveal anything which a diligent buyer wouldn't spot.

 

[davidwf]

With my current boat I had a regular update with masses of photos as it neared completion, I particularly liked that they had a build sheet attached to the hull showing what options were going on it. Only mistake they made was fitting an extra instrument but I rather liked that.

I did have a terrible time with a French boat that was plainly shipped before completion just as the factory shut down for the August holidays. The UK agent pulled out all the stops to sort it out when it arrived but it still took 6 weeks to fully commission as some missing parts were unavailable till they came back from holiday. I was not impressed by the manufacturers excuse off having to hire extra workers that didn't live up to their high standards.

 

[capnsensible]

Ive delivered a few brand new boats and they always seem to have an air of disapointment about them......can take a while to correct defects and discover poor finishing.

Similarly, I picked up a yacht right at the end of a July. It was full of boxes of unfitted kit. Interestingly, when I looked in the anchor locker, there was a spanking new anchor but no chain. 'No one asked for chain' was the yard response. Anyway, my two crew, both friends and one the owner, got it all sorted by ourselves. Earned the owner the nickname 'Lord Scattercash'.

Perhaps, like cars, slightly used is better.

 

[lw395]

I had a survey done on a 12 year old boat once, I remarked there were a lot of defects found.
The surveyor replied that the defects were less numerous than on a new boat he'd just done. Some surveyors do quite a bit of 'commissioning work' on new boats.

 

[dunedin]

I certainly think it would be a good idea to get a survey done on any new build prior to handover. Like building control sign off of a new building.

Basis for this is two surveys done when buying nearly new second hand boats from "quality" builders. In both cases the survey defects noted were mainly from original construction. And one was sufficiently concerning to be a walk away - fir a build defect.

So - YES.

 

[[3889]]

Ive delivered a few brand new boats and they always seem to have an air of disapointment about them......can take a while to correct defects and discover poor finishing.

Similarly, I picked up a yacht right at the end of a July. It was full of boxes of unfitted kit. Interestingly, when I looked in the anchor locker, there was a spanking new anchor but no chain. 'No one asked for chain' was the yard response. Anyway, my two crew, both friends and one the owner, got it all sorted by ourselves. Earned the owner the nickname 'Lord Scattercash'.

Perhaps, like cars, slightly used is better.

Exactly my experience. Delivered a 7 figure newly minted purchase last November and had nothing but problems with it, both before and after agent intervention in the Canaries. Very few of these issues would have been detected by the most diligent surveyor, i.e. clutches ripping through deck due to lack of backing plates or washers. High end brands are not exempt, either: Polina Star III.
Much rather have to deal (litigate?) with a private vendor who may have less inclination to declare insolvency than Oyster, Southerley et al at the first whiff of a problem.

 

[mainsail1]

Yes, a new boat should be surveyed for the purchaser. I wish I had done that on every Bavaria that I bought (4) but I wrongly thought they were new and therefore would be just fine. I learnt the hard way.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I brought a new Dufour in 2009 , the list of problems went on and on ,
what was worst some of the problems the uk dealer try to say wasn't part of the warranty, until I threatened to sue them .
Personally I would never buy another new boat .

 

[Motor_Sailor]

It's normal practice when having a custom built yacht to have 'someone' act for the client. Traditionally, bodies like Lloyds would be engaged, but independent surveyors are fine. Even production builders should be happy for an inspection regime.

But, if you want to go this route, you have to discuss it at point of sale and agree the details of when the inspections will take place, and what criteria of 'acceptable' is going to be used and what is to happen should there be problems.

Just pitching up at delivery with a surveyor is no different from you taking delivery on your own. The only recourse you have is the usual retail legislation, the same as any purchaser. You might feel more 'empowered' by having a knowledgeable person with you, but without a pre-agreed inspection and resolution methodolgy in place, having it surveyed doesn't alter the process one iota.

 

[[70521]]

I will never be in the position of affording a brand new boat but would expect a extremely good hand over, OK I am an engineer and am used to doing detail on stuff, or getting somebody to crawl all over the vessel and signing it off on my behalf.

 

[scottie]

Yes, a new boat should be surveyed for the purchaser. I wish I had done that on every Bavaria that I bought (4) but I wrongly thought they were new and therefore would be just fine. I learnt the hard way.

In that case why not after the first or second?

 

[davidej]

I've never had the pleasure of buying a new boat, but doesn't the owner have to sign some sort of acceptance certificate to complete the deal?

 

[Resolution]

I have owned several new yachts, including some that claim to be built to very high standards. Each one has has numerous issues that have been dealt with post delivery. In a friends case, their new boat failed to have the teak deck they paid for. We have had instances of the wrong engine size being fitted, dangerous keel failings and just plain poor workmanship that didn't reveal itself until after the delivery trip. We should be able to trust boat builders but we can't. Professional surveys are expensive but are they needed before we take delivery of a brand new boat?

An interesting subject for your first post on the forum, Stewart. Would you care to expound a little more on your experiences?

To give the other side of the topic: I used to work in one of the larger UK dealerships and for a couple of years had responsibility for commissioning and handover of around one hundred yachts per annum, mostly in the £75,000 to £150,000 price range. Whilst most customers got a good deal and were happy, I was very conscious that too many were left unsettled and unsatisfied. Some observations:
>The fundamental parts of the boats, hull, decks, keels and masts gave virtually no problems or complaints;
>The interior fittings and in particular the service units (pumps, electrics etc) were most problematic;
>Bigger yachts tended to have more services (generators, more complex electronics etc) and hence more things to go wrong;
>Most of our customers owned cars like Mercedes, Audi that cost less than half of the yacht but were built to far higher standards by fault-free robots;
>Few of our customers understood that yachts were built in far lower volumes and that non-robotic humans could not achieve such fault-free standards;
>Some customers seemed to think that they were buying yachts at the high quality (Mercedes) end, whereas they were really buying mid-market (Ford);
>Factory-fitted extras generally produced fewer problems that those retro-fitted in the UK, where working conditions and labour skills were , shall we say, variable.

Whilst I wanted to greatly improve our commissioning and pre-delivery product, the gross profit margins on which we worked really made it hard to find the money to do this. My argument that this would lead to more customer satisfaction and, in the long run, better customer retention fell on deaf ears. Which is why I left the business.

 

[rwoofer]

I did have a terrible time with a French boat that was plainly shipped before completion just as the factory shut down for the August holidays. The UK agent pulled out all the stops to sort it out when it arrived but it still took 6 weeks to fully commission as some missing parts were unavailable till they came back from holiday. I was not impressed by the manufacturers excuse off having to hire extra workers that didn't live up to their high standards.

I got bitten by the French holiday season as well. Amplified by the fact mine was a Southampton Show Boat, so had to be there whatever.

 

[wrr]

Re: New Yachts - should we get them surveyed before delivery? Caveat Emptor!

I once watched a new racing yacht some 15m loa arrive on a low loader together with its keel. The hull was craned up and lowered onto the keel under the gaze of the builder's representative. On being craned into the water, the yard staff raised the alarm because the bilges were filling with water. Out it came, the builder's representative went to the chandlery and purchased a mastic gun and some sticky goo. A bead of this was applied externally around the hull-keel joint and the boat was relaunched to complete its delivery by sea! A moment when amazement became horror.

 

[mainsail1]

In that case why not after the first or second?

All 4 Bavaria boats were bought within about a year of each other for a sailing school. Hull, keel and rudder defects did not start to appear until year 2 or 3. In hindsight all would have been found by a competent surveyor on Day 1.
Oh and, of course, the dealer went bust!

 

[scottie]

All 4 Bavaria boats were bought within about a year of each other for a sailing school. Hull, keel and rudder defects did not start to appear until year 2 or 3. In hindsight all would have been found by a competent surveyor on Day 1.
Oh and, of course, the dealer went bust!

That is understandable but no many people buy in Quantity

 

[capnsensible]

All 4 Bavaria boats were bought within about a year of each other for a sailing school. Hull, keel and rudder defects did not start to appear until year 2 or 3. In hindsight all would have been found by a competent surveyor on Day 1.
Oh and, of course, the dealer went bust!

Not much comfort but you are not alone. No names, but someone I know bought several yachts together from another manufacturer for the same purpose. Effectively employed someone else I know for months to beef them up for commercial use.

Well actuallt to beef them up for any use......

 

[Quandary]

The last new yacht we bought came without a wheel, to be fair that was because I had considered the carbon fibre offering far too pretentious for round here and has specified steel. The lack of a wheel was possibly a blessing because when the agents tried to motor it round to the fuel berth the emergency tiller required quite a bit of fine tuning with an angle grinder. The boat had a trench for the wheel in the cockpit floor and the Lewmar wheel they then tried which sat clear above it looked ridiculous, it took two months to get the correct size wheel delivered from Jefa.
Then when I took it home and checked it over I discovered that while there was oil in the engine there was none in the gearbox or saildrive leg, they tried to suggest that with oil added it would be fine but having motored for about five hours I insisted that a new transmission was required. They also forgot to fit the calorifier. They responded to everything without demur but the cost and several extra journeys up to Scotland from the Hamble must have eaten in to the profit, the two months faffing about until all was sorted was frustrating.
I did not blame the makers it was their UK agents who were responsible for specifications, launching and commissioning. However to compensate I received a North Finland mainail, No,1 genny and a gennaker for free , good quality sails better than I could have purchased in UK.