New used boat

[charlumax]

Hi all,
im pondering buying a Merry Fisher in Jan and have the following questions:
1 For a 3-4 year old boat, 150 ish hours, is a professional survey really needed ?
2 if yes, how much do these cost for an. 8m?
3 is a 100% verifiable motor service history mandatory (like I insist on for cars)?
4 approx how much can one expect to pay vs a broker asking price, in percentage terms, is 10% off a reasonable target assumption ?

cheers and Merry Xmas
Matt

 

[Tranona]

Yes
£5-600
Yes - not "mandatory" but if no service record then ask why?
Offer what you think the boat is worth to you. If it is with a broker then most likely the price will reflect the going rate for a popular boat like that. It is a fast moving market with a shortage of good boats so do not be surprosed if an offer below the asking price is rejected.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Yes
£5-600
Yes - not "mandatory" but if no service record then ask why?
Offer what you think the boat is worth to you. If it is with a broker then most likely the price will reflect the going rate for a popular boat like that. It is a fast moving market with a shortage of good boats so do not be surprosed if an offer below the asking price is rejected.

Yup rejected and someone buys it from under you.

In the current market you need to move quick. If you want it, can afford it, buy it quickly.

Sometimes Surveys are not worth the paper they are written on

 

[simonfraser]

yes, still a fast moving market for good tidy MFs
i bought a one year old 695/2 just over a year ago, paid top dollar for a good one with full service record via a broker
broker fixed the few outstanding issues - did it this way for an easy life
zero probs with the boat, so far

 

[oldgit]

Sometimes a private seller can be bit optimistic regards an asking price and a broker, even with his entirely reasonable commission, can inject some reality to the situation.
It does take some first time boat buyers by suprise at the sort of offers that can and are made by those with multiple boat purchases under their belt.
Have always bought and sold privately, however recently purchased via broker, who certainly had to work on the seller to agree to the sale, doubt the sale would have gone ahead had it been just me and the seller negotiating.
The broker also had to sort out some import taxes, which we are not allowed to even allude to on here .
Surveys, the bigger/ older/ more expensive the boat, the more likely you are to come a cropper big time , a boat is just collection of things assembled in a glass fibre box by human beings , most of the bits will go wrong at some point, just a case of when.
A survey can help to make sure the seller gets to pick up the coat .... not the buyer.
As for a service record, on a smaller boat, the amount of servicing usually goes like this.

First owner picks up the phone and man in white coat arrives with his white van with a company logo on the side and his magic box read read all the fault codes.
All service items in a VP bottle or box.
Spends 1.5 hours on the boat and one hour in the car park filling out the paperwork/ Ipad , having his lunch and then driving 50 miles back to his base at the customers expence.
If the new boat owner has not frightened himself (and the single time his wife went out with him) silly, the white van may turn up for another year or two.
Lots of dealer invoices with national debt sums.

Next owner.
Either does it himself or gets a local specialist. Might use VP or good quality clone parts.
Decent quantity of paperwork.

Next owner.
DIY all the way , with budget filters/oil and the owner puts the receipts in folder with all the other dead tree tree stuff,that came with the boat, instruction manuals etc.

Next owner
Changes the oil/filters and wonders if the impellers will last another year
Just uses the boat until serious stuff starts to raise it head and then sells to

Next owner.
Gets all the bills due to the previous owners lack of attention.

Recently helped to bring back a small Rodman 700.
Most of the paperwork had gone missing and only one or two instruction manuals came with the boat.
We managed to work out just how long the seller had had the boat from the chartplotter trip record.
It had been purchased in the the spring of this year and had completed less than a dozen local trips before being put up for sale.
Engine had virtually no use and was like new.
Offer was made and accepted.

 

[jakew009]

Personally I’d suggest the decision as to whether you have a survey or not comes down to your own level of mechanical / practical competence.

A surveyor is mostly going to point out the blindingly obvious (bow thruster does not work, signs of coolant leak under engine, batteries show low voltage).

 

[jrudge]

As above. Like a house survey there will be 39 pages. 3 of them will tell you the windows need painting. Another 4 will be the disclaimer. One page will be interesting.

if you have not had boats before then get one but it is a simple and small boat.Spend time on it making sure everything works. Last one I bought I spent 3 hours on and found a long list.

you need a sea trial. Main thing does it achieve full rpm on full throttle and does it overheat

 

[Seastoke]

As above but also you need a lift out to check on Hull, anodes and drive train.

 

[jakew009]

If I was looking over a boat like a smallish MF with an outboard…

- have a good scout around the hull, looking for any signs of damage. Small scratches and scrapes are irrelevant but you can use them to beat up the seller on price. Deep gouges through the gel coat need dealing with and are maybe a warning sign if the seller hasn’t already told you about them.

-have a good look around the transom, check there is no damage. Check the outboard is tightly mounted and there’s no sign of any movement.

- check the prop for any dings / marks. Check the lower leg for any major damage. Check for any oil leaks from the trim / tilt rams. Check the prop bearing spins freely.

- take all the cowls off the engine. Check for any obvious signs of corrosion (there shouldn’t be any). Check for any oil leaks. On a 3-4 year old engine it should look pretty much new under the cowl.

- have a look over the bolt heads around the engine to see if anything’s been opened up before.Be very suspicious of any damaged bolt heads or cable ties that haven’t been clipped off flush.

- check the engine oil level, again if the owner can’t easily give you something to wipe the dipstick with you can assume he’s not checked it very often.

- make sure the cowl comes off easily. If the owner can’t easily take the cowl off be very suspicious about how much maintenance he’s done.

- inside the boat have a good look around under all the lockers / covers. Have a good look at the wiring, be very suspicious of any wires that look out of place / non factory / owner installed.

- check the condition of any through hole fittings. Check the taps all move easily. Check the condition of all the various pipes and jubilee type clips.

- look out for anything that has been fitted as an aftermarket accessory / by the owner. Especially things like inverters or diesel heaters. Be extremely suspicious of the sizing of the wiring / quality of the install / any through hull fixtures.

- check the fuel lines for any sign of dampness / degradation. Check the fuel tank mounts if possible and see if you can see the fuel tank gauge sender seal.

- check around the bilge for how much water there is. Trigger the bilge pump and check it works. Clean bilge = well cared for boat.

- Check the batteries are correctly mounted / secured. Ideally put a drop tester on them to see if they are any good. Voltage tells you nothing.

- try and check as much of the inside of the hull as possible by looking inside lockers/ under floorboards etc for any sign of repairs. A major repair on the outside of the hull will often be invisible but the inside will still show.

- Check all the lights / electrics / chart plotter / gauges etc work. Check the heater works. Check water pump / toilet etc works.

- get behind the dashboard / electrical panel and check for any bodgery. Be very suspicious of anything that’s been bypassed or if there are random wires not connected to anything.

- Take it out for a sea trial. Check the engine stats easily. Find out what the max RPM for the engine should be and make sure it gets there. Check the oil pressure and temperature.

If that little lot all checks out there’s likely nothing major wrong with it mechanically.

 

[Elessar]

Hi all,
im pondering buying a Merry Fisher in Jan and have the following questions:
1 For a 3-4 year old boat, 150 ish hours, is a professional survey really needed ?
2 if yes, how much do these cost for an. 8m?
3 is a 100% verifiable motor service history mandatory (like I insist on for cars)?
4 approx how much can one expect to pay vs a broker asking price, in percentage terms, is 10% off a reasonable target assumption ?

cheers and Merry Xmas
Matt

The only purchase survey I’ve ever had was for a boat bought in the US that I hadn’t actually seen in the flesh.
Engine history more useful especially on resale. But not essential.
VAT proof is nonsense but borderline essential as it will save you hassle on resale due to widespread misinformation about it.

 

[Bigplumbs]

If I was looking over a boat like a smallish MF with an outboard…

- have a good scout around the hull, looking for any signs of damage. Small scratches and scrapes are irrelevant but you can use them to beat up the seller on price. Deep gouges through the gel coat need dealing with and are maybe a warning sign if the seller hasn’t already told you about them.

-have a good look around the transom, check there is no damage. Check the outboard is tightly mounted and there’s no sign of any movement.

- check the prop for any dings / marks. Check the lower leg for any major damage. Check for any oil leaks from the trim / tilt rams. Check the prop bearing spins freely.

- take all the cowls off the engine. Check for any obvious signs of corrosion (there shouldn’t be any). Check for any oil leaks. On a 3-4 year old engine it should look pretty much new under the cowl.

- have a look over the bolt heads around the engine to see if anything’s been opened up before.Be very suspicious of any damaged bolt heads or cable ties that haven’t been clipped off flush.

- check the engine oil level, again if the owner can’t easily give you something to wipe the dipstick with you can assume he’s not checked it very often.

- make sure the cowl comes off easily. If the owner can’t easily take the cowl off be very suspicious about how much maintenance he’s done.

- inside the boat have a good look around under all the lockers / covers. Have a good look at the wiring, be very suspicious of any wires that look out of place / non factory / owner installed.

- check the condition of any through hole fittings. Check the taps all move easily. Check the condition of all the various pipes and jubilee type clips.

- look out for anything that has been fitted as an aftermarket accessory / by the owner. Especially things like inverters or diesel heaters. Be extremely suspicious of the sizing of the wiring / quality of the install / any through hull fixtures.

- check the fuel lines for any sign of dampness / degradation. Check the fuel tank mounts if possible and see if you can see the fuel tank gauge sender seal.

- check around the bilge for how much water there is. Trigger the bilge pump and check it works. Clean bilge = well cared for boat.

- Check the batteries are correctly mounted / secured. Ideally put a drop tester on them to see if they are any good. Voltage tells you nothing.

- try and check as much of the inside of the hull as possible by looking inside lockers/ under floorboards etc for any sign of repairs. A major repair on the outside of the hull will often be invisible but the inside will still show.

- Check all the lights / electrics / chart plotter / gauges etc work. Check the heater works. Check water pump / toilet etc works.

- get behind the dashboard / electrical panel and check for any bodgery. Be very suspicious of anything that’s been bypassed or if there are random wires not connected to anything.

- Take it out for a sea trial. Check the engine stats easily. Find out what the max RPM for the engine should be and make sure it gets there. Check the oil pressure and temperature.

If that little lot all checks out there’s likely nothing major wrong with it mechanically.

Having bought many small boats. That list while useful simply does not happen on the actual day in real life. Many Many Real life things get in your way. At the end of the day you have a simply choice are you buying it or not.

The best advice I would give is only buy it if you can easily afford it.

 

[oldgit]

The best advice I would give is only buy it if you can easily afford it.

Sensible gold plated advice.

Most of us ignore that completely, however, and just get on with enjoying a rather difficult to explain pastime and the constant worry to make sure certain rather difficult to explain invoices never quite make it back to the house ?

 

[jakew009]

Having bought many small boats. That list while useful simply does not happen on the actual day in real life. Many Many Real life things get in your way. At the end of the day you have a simply choice are you buying it or not.

The best advice I would give is only buy it if you can easily afford it.

If you are spending 50-100 grand like the OP would be on a boat, I would suggest it’s prudent to find the time to do it (or pay a surveyor to find the time for you).

Most of the list could be gone through in 45 mins.

It’s much better to know in advance the boat requires 20 grand of remedial work rather than the first time you take it for a service…

 

[paradave]

In my small sample of boats purchases, the surveyor report has always saved me multiple times the cost of the survey in discount off purchase price alone. Real Life anecdote.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Sensible gold plated advice.

Most of us ignore that completely, however, and just get on with enjoying a rather difficult to explain pastime and the constant worry to make sure certain rather difficult to explain invoices never quite make it back to the house ?

Have never understood the whole keep it from her indoors thing. My Wife knows all the costs etc. She would never say no to any of it..... Been Married 35 years. Neither of us buy anything unless we can easily afford it

 

[Portofino]

Only ever sold one mobo a fresh ish sunseeker for a 6 figure sum .So no faults other than wear n tear .Everything worked .Large history file .It reached WOT without alarming etc at manufacturers rpm .

I had my price slightly under the mid price of the then 6 for sale .Certainly not the upper end .
Broker said add on few €000 s euros for the knockdown .The knock down is according to the broker is the buyers survey and lift fees etc .
Its all a game he told me. Nobody has a survey and does not use it to knockdown at least recover there costs .Buyer is not humiliated with the thought he’s wasted his money by all involved.

So we added a bit on to cover this knockdown .You see it saves face of the buyer lubricates the sales process .All psychology.
If he thinks he’s chipped you etc .But he hasn’t really as the asking price reflected the well anticipated knock down .

Just a shell game .

 

[jakew009]

Only ever sold one mobo a fresh ish sunseeker for a 6 figure sum .So no faults other than wear n tear .Everything worked .Large history file .It reached WOT without alarming etc at manufacturers rpm .

I had my price slightly under the mid price of the then 6 for sale .Certainly not the upper end .
Broker said add on few €000 s euros for the knockdown .The knock down is according to the broker is the buyers survey and lift fees etc .
Its all a game he told me. Nobody has a survey and does not use it to knockdown at least recover there costs .Buyer is not humiliated with the thought he’s wasted his money by all involved.

So we added a bit on to cover this knockdown .You see it saves face of the buyer lubricates the sales process .All psychology.
If he thinks he’s chipped you etc .But he hasn’t really as the asking price reflected the well anticipated knock down .

Just a shell game .

On the other hand being able to go look at something and making a cash offer to take it away 'as is' is also a powerful negotiating tool.
It's why companies like webuyanycar can exist.

 

[Bigplumbs]

There is a world of difference for boats up to say £30K than Boats over £100k What you do with those in-between who knows

 

[Elessar]

There is a world of difference for boats up to say £30K than Boats over £100k What you do with those in-between who knows

My current boat was bought with no survey and it was a chunk north of £100k.
It was lockdown and it had sold. The buyer could not get the surveyor to the boat. So I went to corsica to view a sold boat.
I said “I’m going to write down a number. This number will not go up. Neither will it go down as I am not having a survey. I either buy the boat for this number or I get on the plane. Your call. “
After 20 minutes discussion with the seller (in Belgium) he shook my hand and told me I’d bought a boat.
Surveys don’t always win for the buyer.
My offer price allowed for some repairs and they have totalled less than my allowance.

 

[paradave]

On the other hand being able to go look at something and making a cash offer to take it away 'as is' is also a powerful negotiating tool.
It's why companies like webuyanycar can exist.

Agreed with the ‘I’ll take it as seen’ approach and If only webuyanycar honoured their ‘as is’ price. I’ve not personally used them but everyone I know has been knocked a significant amount for items that would be normally considered wear and tear.

Did you ever sell the rib by the way?