New (used) boat. Keep Part 1 or switch to SSR?

[JumbleDuck]

Thus a register is not necessarily proof of benificial ownership.

Our roving friend seems to be under the impression either that the registrar has instantaneous knowledge of every sale of a registered vessel or that it is not possible to sell a registered vessel without informing the registrar and waiting for confirmation. Since neither of these is the case, the precise nature of the registrar's information is irrelevant; whatever it is may simply not correspond to reality.

Nevertheless our friend thinks the register entry offers complete protection against fraud, unless someone is trying to defraud you.

 

[Irish Rover]

in Fairness to Tranona what he is saying makes sense and seems correct, But if you still doubt him just look at the definition of owner from the SI you referred to.

The reality is that benificial and legal ownership can be held separately, or together, and the registers relate to legal ownership.

Thus a register is not necessarily proof of benificial ownership.

“owner” means, in relation to a ship or share in a ship, the person owning the ship, or as the case may be, a share in the ship, whether or not registered as owner;

This is a fair point but I believe you need to look at the definition in conjunction with Regulation 2[5] which stipulates that "not more than sixty-four persons shall be entitled to be registered at the same time as owners of any one ship". My certificate says "Current ownership and mortgage details must be obtained from the Registrar" and I believe if the person selling the boat are the same as the person named in the Register then you are safe to buy the boat from that person. If I'm wrong so be it but I don't believe I am and I'm sticking to my guns until I see the Registry say something to contradict what's written on their website and on my certificate or someone shows me a case where the current registered owner sold a boat he was not entitled to sell.

 

[Irish Rover]

Our anatine friend might be better employed looking at some more of his asinine cartoon strips.

 

[JumbleDuck]

... I believe if the person selling the boat are the same as the person named in the Register then you are safe to buy the boat from that person.

Who do you think is named in the register between a boat being sold and the register being informed of the sale?

 

[pandos]

This is a fair point but I believe you need to look at the definition in conjunction with Regulation 2[5] which stipulates that "not more than sixty-four persons shall be entitled to be registered at the same time as owners of any one ship". My certificate says "Current ownership and mortgage details must be obtained from the Registrar" and I believe if the person selling the boat are the same as the person named in the Register then you are safe to buy the boat from that person. If I'm wrong so be it but I don't believe I am and I'm sticking to my guns until I see the Registry say something to contradict what's written on their website and on my certificate or someone shows me a case where the current registered owner sold a boat he was not entitled to sell.

there you go... there is a limit on the numbers of people entitled to be registered as owners... but no limit on the number of people who may be owners.... if I divide ownership of the vessel amongst 364 owners and we each and all agree that each will have the use of the ship for one day per year but will each own one undivided 364th of the ship.... there will be 364 owners but only 64 will be registerable....the there will thus be genuine non fraudulent unregistered ownerships....

now if the 64 registered owners purport to sell you the entire ship will you actually become the new owner?

of course if the person in possession simply stripped off the ifdentifying characteristics and faked or duplicated a series of ownership papers you would never know so ultimately there is a leap of faith needed in every purchaseof a mobile asset.

to answer your question you should leave it on the part 1...

but please accept that it is not definitive of anything other than the existence of a registered mortgage or lack thereof or a registered owner.....

 

[Irish Rover]

Where are we know. OK right. If there are 64 named owners listed on the register be careful because 64 is the maximum number that can be on the actual register so there may be more. Oh yes, be careful too if you see other people hanging around the boat acting as if they've just bought the bloody thing or measuring the fenders for monogrammed covers that might indicate the registered owner of the boat has sold it to a number of unrelated parties all in the 8 days or so it takes for the first such buyer to get his name on the register. Or, in the unlikely event you live in the real world, check with the registry and if the registered owner and the person selling the boat are the same then buy it and enjoy it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Or, in the unlikely event you live in the real world, check with the registry and if the registered owner and the person selling the boat are the same then buy it and enjoy it.

Why are you making a check which you have now twice admitted would not detect fraud? If you are unconcerned about the possibility of fraud, why are you making any checks?

 

[Biggles Wader]

Five posts required to solve the OPs dilemma.
Five pages of ludicrous puerile bickering to satisfy the waving willys.:encouragement:

 

[Irish Rover]

@Jumble Duck [sorry I forgot to quote your #47]
OK , my friend. I've been trying to answer the question asked by the OP in a way that would be helpful to him but, at this stage, I think he's got as much as he's going to get from this thread. In addition, as I posted on another thread this morning, I've been without a boat for 3 months and I'm bored like a dog without a lollipop to lick so lets keep going.
I believe I've answered your question already but, in any event, I'll be happy to expand on my answer a little later but first could you answer a question for me. Since you don't think it's a sufficient check to get confirmation from the Registry that the person selling the boat are the same as the person listed on the Register as the owners would you mind telling us what additional checks you would make to satisfy yourself in relation to the sellers right to sell the boat to you.

 

[JumbleDuck]

... first could you answer a question for me. Since you don't think it's a sufficient check to get confirmation from the Registry that the person selling the boat are the same as the person listed on the Register as the owners would you mind telling us what additional checks you would make to satisfy yourself in relation to the sellers right to sell the boat to you.

You've twice said that your proposed check would not work if someone was trying to defraud you. I think that concludes the matter. Good luck with your next purchase.

 

[Irish Rover]

You've twice said that your proposed check would not work if someone was trying to defraud you. I think that concludes the matter. Good luck with your next purchase.

I hope you realise posting that says a lot more about you than it does about me so I'll finish by quoting Socrates “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

 

[doug748]

No idea what he would do but it is a good question.

As you suggest Part One goes a long way on the ownership question and sight of it, or a nod to the registrar, gives you a lot of information about the boat and it's history. If there are any discrepancies you can follow this up.

If the address is correct and the boat details, and discreet enquiries at the marina, yacht club or boatyard support this then most people might be content.

That is the value of Part One as far as I see it. It can show, beyond reasonable doubt, that this bloke, at this address, at some point had summat notable to do with this particular boat, probably ownership.

 

[Dan Tribe]

My first "proper" yacht was Part 1 registered and came with a very impresive hard backed blue book, all filled out in beautiful copperplate writing. It showed the original fee, about 2 guineas from memory.
As a proud new owner I took this to Custom House in London to get the ownership changed.
The clerk scribbled my details in biro on the bottom and charged me loads of dosh for the privilege.
I was a bit miffed.