New traffic separation scheme at lands End...
- Thread starter tonybarebones
- Start date
Csail
N/A
So which bit has changed? Charts are on the boat but it looks the same.
matelot
Well-Known Member
extends a lot further north and looks as if it might be a bit further south.
MarkJohnson12345
Well-Known Member
Two years ago I was tooted at by HMS Corwall for clipping the TS coming from Scillies (New Grimsby) to Padstow.
No other ship in sight!
So is it now going to be more of a diversion??
Mj
No other ship in sight!
So is it now going to be more of a diversion??
Mj
NickiCrutchfield
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree Mark. It looks like a regular pain in the arse. A tricky enough spot without having to worry about cutting in tight in hard weather with the alternative being many hours of diversion. Is it that busy there. I know there is all the north and south going traffic, but it is NOTHING like the Dover straits is it? A right bugger single-handing from s Wales/n. Devon as it is without adding extra hours. If it was a really crap SW wind surely we would nearly be in Scilly before turning left.
Nicki
Nicki
MarkJohnson12345
Well-Known Member
Any ideas why the zone has been pushed northwards.
On my usual twice a year trip through this area, I don't often see lots of ships, often see none at all?
MJ
On my usual twice a year trip through this area, I don't often see lots of ships, often see none at all?
MJ
Csail
N/A
Seems a bit silly for yachts to go by the rules in that area.
Allan
Well-Known Member
Fines for not obeying the zone off Dover have ranged between £2000 and £10000. Although I agree the new zone is a bit over the top, I will be sticking to the rules. It should always be remembered that, when crossing a TSS, it is your CTS not you COG that should be 90 deg. From the reports I have read it is normally vessels going against the flow, not crossing badly, that are tracked and taken to court.
Allan
Allan
graham
Well-Known Member
I wonder if they really have the ability to track a small yacht anyway. I think unless your impeding the shipping or doing something really stupid such as tacking up a shipping lane the chances of being seen or reported are slim.
Having said that the penalties are eyewatering..
Having said that the penalties are eyewatering..
Zephyr362
Well-Known Member
I guess if you getaway with it, then all fair and good, but if you don't then they will have a good day. All is takes is a ship to report you and that's the start of it, after all if they have to abide by the rules then so must we.
It does seem an unjustified pain, but we can still cross and as the lanes are roughly SSW then we probably wouldn't be sailing down them anyway but tacking across.
There have been a few high profiles of racing yachts getting done for going the wrong way, but if you show intent that's may be enough unless of course there is an incident.
CG do have a spotter plane for this reason usually in the Dover area. We are the hedgehog and they own the road!
It does seem an unjustified pain, but we can still cross and as the lanes are roughly SSW then we probably wouldn't be sailing down them anyway but tacking across.
There have been a few high profiles of racing yachts getting done for going the wrong way, but if you show intent that's may be enough unless of course there is an incident.
CG do have a spotter plane for this reason usually in the Dover area. We are the hedgehog and they own the road!
Allan
Well-Known Member
Monitoring CH16 last year I heard a number of vessels informing the coastguard they were about to cross the TSS. I'm sure the CG said "yes we are tracking you on AIS and radar, procede with care"
Allan
Allan
johnchampion
Well-Known Member
It seems that the RYA are forever attempting to head off attempts to legislate in a way which is onerous to small leisure craft and most people I seem to talk to are also against giving more powers to the authorities to control us and the call for mandatory certification requirements.
I'm sure that many if not all users on this site would agree with these sentiments and yet the thread here seems to be along the lines of 1)_its silly for yachts so I won't bother 2) well I'll stick to the rules but only because I may get a big fine if I don't 3) well its alright if I get away with it and 4) I don't think they can catch me breaking the rules so thats OK then.
Is it really any wonder that people want to legislate against us if this is the general attitude of leisure sailors?
I don't have the faintest idea why the TSS has been extended but they are there for the safe passage of commercial craft not the inconvenience of small boaters. The rules as to their use are quite specific and do not lend themselves to different interpretations.
If you are going to ignore this TSS because its "silly" which of the other rules are you going to bend when it suits you. I think I'd like to know as if I'm the stand on vessel at some time I'll keep an extra sharp lookout going when one of the rule benders heaves into sight.
I'm sure that many if not all users on this site would agree with these sentiments and yet the thread here seems to be along the lines of 1)_its silly for yachts so I won't bother 2) well I'll stick to the rules but only because I may get a big fine if I don't 3) well its alright if I get away with it and 4) I don't think they can catch me breaking the rules so thats OK then.
Is it really any wonder that people want to legislate against us if this is the general attitude of leisure sailors?
I don't have the faintest idea why the TSS has been extended but they are there for the safe passage of commercial craft not the inconvenience of small boaters. The rules as to their use are quite specific and do not lend themselves to different interpretations.
If you are going to ignore this TSS because its "silly" which of the other rules are you going to bend when it suits you. I think I'd like to know as if I'm the stand on vessel at some time I'll keep an extra sharp lookout going when one of the rule benders heaves into sight.
Allan
Well-Known Member
I will leave my view of the RYA for another time. As to the idea of not obeying a TSS, I will certainly obey. Like some of the other people on here, the TSS in question is in my sailing area and although it is a little difficult to understand why it has been extended, it must be obeyed.
It seems to me that the fact it is being discussed on here shows we are interested all aspects of safety at sea.
Allan
It seems to me that the fact it is being discussed on here shows we are interested all aspects of safety at sea.
Allan
graham
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I'll keep an extra sharp lookout going when one of the rule benders heaves into sight.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not wanting to be pedantic John but the rules do say you should be keeping a good look out at all times not just when you see fit.
Please let me know when you intend to not keep a sharp look out so I can keep well clear whether stand on vessel or not..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'll keep an extra sharp lookout going when one of the rule benders heaves into sight.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not wanting to be pedantic John but the rules do say you should be keeping a good look out at all times not just when you see fit.
Please let me know when you intend to not keep a sharp look out so I can keep well clear whether stand on vessel or not..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
mrbloto
Well-Known Member
when i went to evening classes to study for the yachtmaster the tutor was a retired skipper of commercial vessals and he said that you just maintained your course and try to pass to the rear off a commercial vessal.you can not argue who was right and who was wrong when your in davy jones locker you have to respect the rules. if the weather is to foul you do not put to sea
matelot
Well-Known Member
This is legislation to control small craft so I dont quite see the point of your opening sentence. Got to say the rest really seems a bit holier than thou - after all the majority of us drive to our boats and the large majority dont follow your rules 2, 3, and 4 when we do so. Indeed we moan like nobodies business when we get zapped doing 31mph on an empty road.
Yes, nobody in their right mind plays chicken with commercial vessels whether in traffic zones or not. But thats not the same as blindly accepting all the petty rules made up by those who see themselves as our masters. That way lies the police state - if we're not there already.
So yes - question the need for every rule. And remember they are there for the guidance of the wise and the obedience of fools.
Yes, nobody in their right mind plays chicken with commercial vessels whether in traffic zones or not. But thats not the same as blindly accepting all the petty rules made up by those who see themselves as our masters. That way lies the police state - if we're not there already.
So yes - question the need for every rule. And remember they are there for the guidance of the wise and the obedience of fools.
johnchampion
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Not wanting to be pedantic John but the rules do say you should be keeping a good look out at all times not just when you see fit.
OK Graham let's be pedantic! Rule 5 actually says every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look out ..........
And again being pedantic where exactly did I say I would only keep a look out when I see fit?
doesn't say you can't post an extra sharp look out on top when you feel like it so you should be all right when you see me looming over the horizon. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Not wanting to be pedantic John but the rules do say you should be keeping a good look out at all times not just when you see fit.
OK Graham let's be pedantic! Rule 5 actually says every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look out ..........
And again being pedantic where exactly did I say I would only keep a look out when I see fit?
doesn't say you can't post an extra sharp look out on top when you feel like it so you should be all right when you see me looming over the horizon. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
johnchampion
Well-Known Member
Matelot, yes the legislation is to control all craft, not just small craft, with perhaps the exclusion of jet skis according to some high court judge, but the point of my opening remark was aimed at defending the status quo of the people, perhaps like you and me, that use small craft. Don't think I'm against training and qualifications, in fact far from it, I fully believe in both, however I would not welcome seeing them forced on leisure users who neither need nor want them and are still perfectly good seamen.
I'm sure there are a lot of Master's who would have liked to point out to the Court of Enquiry that rules are for the guidance of the wise and the obedience of fools but it would not have saved them from losing their tickets!
And for the discussion in point I don't think playing chicken comes into it but rather the opposite if crossing a TSS in the proscribed manner.
And no, it's not holier than thou, it's just common sense to stay out of trouble.
I'm sure there are a lot of Master's who would have liked to point out to the Court of Enquiry that rules are for the guidance of the wise and the obedience of fools but it would not have saved them from losing their tickets!
And for the discussion in point I don't think playing chicken comes into it but rather the opposite if crossing a TSS in the proscribed manner.
And no, it's not holier than thou, it's just common sense to stay out of trouble.
MarkJohnson12345
Well-Known Member
I do have to admit being one of your rule benders John.
When crossing the TZ between Scillies and Padstow, I cut the corner if no other ships are in sight.
Of course if there are vessels of any sort using the TZ, I would quickly be seen to obeying the rules, so that others could anticipate my course heading.
But when nothing is in sight, and there are no white or yellow lines on the sea, I see no problem in making a direct course to my desired landfall.
The TZ between the scillies and Land's End in my experience is not busy. Certainly when I am around anyway!
I'll go and check the yard arms now.......
When crossing the TZ between Scillies and Padstow, I cut the corner if no other ships are in sight.
Of course if there are vessels of any sort using the TZ, I would quickly be seen to obeying the rules, so that others could anticipate my course heading.
But when nothing is in sight, and there are no white or yellow lines on the sea, I see no problem in making a direct course to my desired landfall.
The TZ between the scillies and Land's End in my experience is not busy. Certainly when I am around anyway!
I'll go and check the yard arms now.......
Csail
N/A
We always go 90 degrees but it is easy with the chartplotter. Safety wise if it was really rough i would go on a heading safer for the boat.....there doesn't seem to be much shipping in that area.
