New to us boat - how to justify spending on refurbishments and knowing when to stop!

Sailsalot

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Poole, Dorset
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We bought a Parker 275 last year, 20 years old but in good condition. We sailed it all last summer and had a great time getting to know the new boat. We’ve had racing dinghies for years and our previous boat was a Cornish Shrimper, which we enjoyed as a day boat but the overnight accommodation for 2 of us plus dog was limited, so we didn’t have it long.
Our new and more spacious boat had a problem though, the alarm for the motor kept going off- which was worrying and loud, so we decided to get the motor overhauled during the winter, plus sort out the water inlet. When we added up the costs of all the parts that needed replacing, it was obvious that a new motor would be preferable, so that has been fitted.

Other jobs that have been tackled:
• Copper coating
• Fitting a skeg (discovered when we hauled it out that it didn’t have one)
• Partially re lining the cabins
• Pipework for head/holding tank replaced
• New and very smart stripes on the now very shiny hull
• A new folding stainless steel boarding/swimming ladder – pleased with this as had to design it ourselves. Getting back onboard last year after swimming was daunting and difficult.
• New windows as they were leaking in places, only a tiny amount, which we didn’t notice at first, but would eventually have spoiled the interior.
• Removing the keel and having it re-surfaced (probably not the correct term).
We are having the cabin upholstery re-covered over the summer months at fairly vast expense, strictly speaking not necessary as it was replaced less than 10 years ago and in relatively good condition, but slightly faded, other half could have lived with it, but I want my own choice of fabric.
It has been a little scary to add up the cost of all refurbishments, even with most of the work undertaken by hubby (well done him); far more than we intended. Suppose we could/should have stuck to the priorities of fitting a new motor, normal anti fouling, having the skeg made.
We have attempted to justify expenses to ourselves :
• We both enjoy sailing, so on a per person basis the expenses are ONLY half each.
• Having a reliable motor an essential, not a luxury.
• We will use the boat for holidays, therefore saving money!
• We bought the boat at a very reasonable price, so all improvements add value….but that is just self-delusion.
• The ladder is needed for health and safety.
• The new linings, boat upholstery will put a stop to any boat interior envy.
• It is our money we are wasting, whoops I mean investing.
• You only live once

Although we shouldn’t need to do many more major improvements - new sails would be nice, spray hood re-covered, new wind dodgers, hmmm……..they will definitely have to wait!
I wonder how many others on here have spent far more than they intended, or is it best not to count the cost?
 
Wow. I think you've spent in a year what most people would have spent in ten years.
If you have the money, then fine. Don't expect it to add much to the value of the boat.
On our first boat, we renewed the through-hull, replaced the standing rigging, got a new boom, added a spinnaker, got two brand new sails, and some new instruments. Dour years later we sold her for about 20% less than the original purchase price, and possibly close to 50% of our actual total spend.
 
Boating/ sailing is a hobby - like anything else there is a cost. If you regard your boat as 'an investment' it ceases to be a hobby. Therefore in my opinion it's entirely up to you!
If the changes and improvements you have made to date make you both happy, and make the boat a more pleasant place to idle away some time the expenditure has been well worth it.
If of course your boat is an investment...... what can I say that's polite? :D
 
I bought Tam Lin just over three years ago as my retirement boat for a reasonable price. The surveyor said that she was basically sound but I knew that I would have to spend some money on her. There was no history with her so I had the rigging replaced and new bunk cushions, then the engine went wrong so I am having a new one installed. Last time I counted up I had done 60 different jobs on her. I also started to keep a list of how much I have spent. That was frightening! The engine alone had cost me twice what the boat originally cost me and by the time I have finished the refurb I will have spent at least three times as much. I could have spent the money on a bigger, more modern boat.
Financially, it makes no sense, if I sold her I would lose a lot of money. However, I have a well sorted boat which, I hope, will look after me in the years to come so I believe that it is money well spent.
It all depends on how you look at things, if you get satisfaction from making your boat how you want her to be then the cost is justified, better not to look too closely at how much you spend though!
 
We have never regarded a boat as an investment, but have not lost much money as far as purchase to resale price on previous boats; maybe we’ve been lucky Kelpie. This is the first one we’ve had to re vamp and spend significant money on though, only time will tell!
You are right Eaststicks 28, sailing is our main hobby and we love it. You can’t put a price on that, can you? :)
Having a boat that looks good inside and out, especially a family cruiser must help with any resale, although I can see we probably won’t get the refurb money back, having to buy a new motor didn’t figure in our original plans. We bought the boat in France with a favourable exchange rate, which made it a good prospect for doing up to a level we could live with though.
Saying all that, we don’t plan to sell the boat as it is very suitable for our type of sailing. The boat is nicely designed, plus the electric lifting keel is handy for the shallows of Poole. We don’t want to go bigger as easy to sail/manoeuvre with 2 of us and no plans for crossing the Atlantic anytime soon.
 
I think most boat owners like to customise their new purchase to suit their needs. The way I view it is this, If I'm going to keep the boat for 5 years for example, I divide the cost of refurbishments by 5. Makes it more justifiable in my opinion and when you start using the boat the enjoyment factor outway's the cost. It's only money and we can't take it with us, life is for enjoying.
 
Why does any expense have to be justified - except maybe to 'er indoors? It's a hobby and in most cases money spent is down the drain as far as recovering it on sale is concerned. Friends who play golf at expensive clubs spend more on membership fees than many spend on their boats in a year.
 
Thanks Tam Lin and Bikerbill, both those replies have cheered me up considerably.
New justification:
Boat refurb/ number of years of ownership = Not much, if we live long enough.
 
If it's something you both enjoy and can afford to do it then it's fine. You've got the boat the way you want it and hopefully you will both enjoy years using it.
Don't try to justify the costs.
 
A boat is never an investment but a cost for your pleasure.

It is sensible to keep a mental note of the cost so you can review whether spending the money a different way would give you more pleasure. eg Boat cost say £50k, Annual cost £10k but extra repairs refurbishment say £30k. Now for £90k you can buy a apartment somewhere warm! Not for me and I have spent far more than the figures I quote and perhaps not for you but something that should be kept in mind.

The second point is what boat do you lavish your money on. Most of us slowly upsize during our sailing life. In our case we went through all the Mks of Wayfarer before buying a Dufour 36, then a Dufour 38, and now finally the Jeanneau 43DS that we are sticking with (room for grandchildren!) but I would be tempted to downsize except for the cost and entering the unknown on total cost of refurb as its always more than you expect.

Changing boats is always expensive and especially so if you have lavished time care and money on improving your existing boat - so make sure its not all wasted if in a few years time you are likely to change boats. If upsizing is likely then I recommend essential maintenance only.

Finally enjoy whatever pleasures you like as you don't want to be the richest man in the graveyard.
 
You have to be comfortable - mentally - with your boat before you go off sailing and that means, to me, that you have to deal with the things that niggle - whether they are expensive or not!

I have also bought a 20 year old boat, basically sound, but lots of work needed and have also been keeping an eye on the spiralling costs (it is surprising how the little things add up).
I worked out yesterday (having returned from 5 days working on her) that for the cost of motoring down there, staying in a B&B, eating out every night and so-on, I could have paid someone to do the work that my wife and I did, but the difference is that I now have an intimate knowledge of this areas of the boat on which we worked that will stand me in good stead in the future when (not if) I need to climb the mast on a wet cold day to replace something!

Some (many) people lose more per year in depreciation on their annual brand new car, than I spend on sailing.
Some people spend more on Starbucks, booze and fags - almost
Some can afford to do all the above :-)

It's your money!
 
Yes I have to agree on points made by all. We have a him/ 'er OUTDOORS combination which does help with cost implications, a shared hobby.
Hmmm……as for upsizing, I can easily see how that could happen, have seen inside some palatial cabins in the yacht club :)
But not for a while yet…..
 
Agree with all points made. Have made many improvements to my boat list below. She is a much better boat, sails better, I feel safe and have ventured much further having confidence in the boat and her systems. I am lucky as I have a reasonable budget and forgiving wife.
Have learnt over the years never to skimp on maintenance and through forums and such, have added many items I was not aware of in the past, such as renewing/inspecting steering cables, they snapped on a previous boat 30 miles off the Dutch coast and we had to be rescued.


Improvements to GIGI since purchase in Sept 2010

1 New running rigging 2011
2 New heads tap and shower unit 2011
3 New standing rigging 2011
4 Elelctrice windlass 2011
5 New batteries Aug 2013
6 New wheel pilot 2013
7 New VHF aerial 2013
8 New wind anometer 2013
9 New Toilet 2011
10 New sails Spring 2013
11 Instalation of rubish bin 2012
12 Bronze Door hooks 2012
13 Fitted bedding for forecabin 2013
14 Cruising chute added 2013
15 Spinnaker pole added 2013
16 New Rocna anchor 2013
17 new deep sea seal 2011
18 New steering cables 2013
19 New radio/cd player 2012
20 Insulation for bunks 2012
21 Liferaft cradle 2013
22 new deck glands for mast electrics 2013
23 New Stak pack and sail cover 2013
24 New Throttle cable 2013
25 New gear cable July 13
26 New primary fuel filter July 13
27 Parrafin gimbaled lamp installed July 13
28 New Sterling battery charger 2014
29 New Outboard Suzuki 2.5 2014
30 New Liferaft installed Feb 2014
31 New seacocks and skin fittings installed March 2014
32 New stern spray dodger March 14
33 New outboard cover March 14
34 New Cooker Jan 2015
35 New Exhaust hose March 2015
36 New carpet forward and aft cabins March 2015
37 New guardrails installed April 15
 
We bought a Parker 275 last year, 20 years old but in good condition. We sailed it all last summer and had a great time getting to know the new boat. We’ve had racing dinghies for years and our previous boat was a Cornish Shrimper, which we enjoyed as a day boat but the overnight accommodation for 2 of us plus dog was limited, so we didn’t have it long.
Our new and more spacious boat had a problem though, the alarm for the motor kept going off- which was worrying and loud, so we decided to get the motor overhauled during the winter, plus sort out the water inlet. When we added up the costs of all the parts that needed replacing, it was obvious that a new motor would be preferable, so that has been fitted.

Other jobs that have been tackled:
• Copper coating
• Fitting a skeg (discovered when we hauled it out that it didn’t have one)
• Partially re lining the cabins
• Pipework for head/holding tank replaced
• New and very smart stripes on the now very shiny hull
• A new folding stainless steel boarding/swimming ladder – pleased with this as had to design it ourselves. Getting back onboard last year after swimming was daunting and difficult.
• New windows as they were leaking in places, only a tiny amount, which we didn’t notice at first, but would eventually have spoiled the interior.
• Removing the keel and having it re-surfaced (probably not the correct term).
We are having the cabin upholstery re-covered over the summer months at fairly vast expense, strictly speaking not necessary as it was replaced less than 10 years ago and in relatively good condition, but slightly faded, other half could have lived with it, but I want my own choice of fabric.
It has been a little scary to add up the cost of all refurbishments, even with most of the work undertaken by hubby (well done him); far more than we intended. Suppose we could/should have stuck to the priorities of fitting a new motor, normal anti fouling, having the skeg made.
We have attempted to justify expenses to ourselves :
• We both enjoy sailing, so on a per person basis the expenses are ONLY half each.
• Having a reliable motor an essential, not a luxury.
• We will use the boat for holidays, therefore saving money!
• We bought the boat at a very reasonable price, so all improvements add value….but that is just self-delusion.
• The ladder is needed for health and safety.
• The new linings, boat upholstery will put a stop to any boat interior envy.
• It is our money we are wasting, whoops I mean investing.
• You only live once

Although we shouldn’t need to do many more major improvements - new sails would be nice, spray hood re-covered, new wind dodgers, hmmm……..they will definitely have to wait!
I wonder how many others on here have spent far more than they intended, or is it best not to count the cost?

Great boat. I bought my Parker 275 a year ago and have probably spent 50% of the purchase price on new sails, prop, Spinnaker etc.

Sale value...........

Less than I paid for the boat!

The only thing to say in your favour is that I would imagine that the spending will slow down dramatically. I am now spending nearly nothing except the marina fees.

So if I keep it for 7-8 years the initial spending will be spread out.

However in my mental balance sheet the boat is in at zero value. Anything I eventually get back will be a bonus.

The other Parker 275 at Port Edgar is immaculate, he has spent much more than you or I so don't worry!!
 
I would bet that the previous owner spent quite a bit of money on the boat too....We all do, it's the nature of sailing and boat owning so don't beat yourself up trying to justify your spend.

The previous owner of my current boat had her for 4 years and spent £50K on it - then sold it to me for the same price as he bought it. You might think that I might feel smug about that but I'm spending money on modifying and upgrading her to suit my kind of sailing and I have to accept that I will never see a penny of that spend.

One tip is to treat buying sails as "operating cost". At least that what I tell my good lady when she asks about the sails budget....
 
We bought a Parker 275 last year, 20 years old but in good condition. We sailed it all last summer and had a great time getting to know the new boat. We’ve had racing dinghies for years and our previous boat was a Cornish Shrimper, which we enjoyed as a day boat but the overnight accommodation for 2 of us plus dog was limited, so we didn’t have it long.
Our new and more spacious boat had a problem though, the alarm for the motor kept going off- which was worrying and loud, so we decided to get the motor overhauled during the winter, plus sort out the water inlet. When we added up the costs of all the parts that needed replacing, it was obvious that a new motor would be preferable, so that has been fitted.

Other jobs that have been tackled:
• Copper coating
• Fitting a skeg (discovered when we hauled it out that it didn’t have one)
• Partially re lining the cabins
• Pipework for head/holding tank replaced
• New and very smart stripes on the now very shiny hull
• A new folding stainless steel boarding/swimming ladder – pleased with this as had to design it ourselves. Getting back onboard last year after swimming was daunting and difficult.
• New windows as they were leaking in places, only a tiny amount, which we didn’t notice at first, but would eventually have spoiled the interior.
• Removing the keel and having it re-surfaced (probably not the correct term).
We are having the cabin upholstery re-covered over the summer months at fairly vast expense, strictly speaking not necessary as it was replaced less than 10 years ago and in relatively good condition, but slightly faded, other half could have lived with it, but I want my own choice of fabric.
It has been a little scary to add up the cost of all refurbishments, even with most of the work undertaken by hubby (well done him); far more than we intended. Suppose we could/should have stuck to the priorities of fitting a new motor, normal anti fouling, having the skeg made.
We have attempted to justify expenses to ourselves :
• We both enjoy sailing, so on a per person basis the expenses are ONLY half each.
• Having a reliable motor an essential, not a luxury.
• We will use the boat for holidays, therefore saving money!
• We bought the boat at a very reasonable price, so all improvements add value….but that is just self-delusion.
• The ladder is needed for health and safety.
• The new linings, boat upholstery will put a stop to any boat interior envy.
• It is our money we are wasting, whoops I mean investing.
• You only live once

Although we shouldn’t need to do many more major improvements - new sails would be nice, spray hood re-covered, new wind dodgers, hmmm……..they will definitely have to wait!
I wonder how many others on here have spent far more than they intended, or is it best not to count the cost?

Everyone is different but interesting to see 'new sails' at the bottom of the list!
 
With our racing skills, we can put up with marginally baggy sails for more leisurely cruising, at least for now ;)

If the sails are otherwise good you could always have them recut to remove the baggyness.

You have got to spend your money somewhere! Why not on a boat? Just don't expect it to turn a profit, keep it for fifteen years or more then the initial referb costs aren't so high averaged over the owned life ;)
 
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