New to boating and need your help

[Timpenny670]

I, as many people do, have dreams of sailing around Europe. From my base in Southampton, around France, Spain, Portugal and beyond. To get started I have recently bought a beautiful (30 year old) Timpenny670. Last Sunday, I took her around from the top of Fareham to her swing mooring in Southampton. Once moored up and engine safely stored in the cabin i started rowing away and noticed that she was rocking far more violently from a wash than the boats surrounding her. On wednesday i then took the wife out and she sailed fine but again freaked out on the mooring. I visited her again this Sunday (mill pond conditions) and whilst sitting on the foredeck with my son we were thrown violently from the wash of a passing tug. none of the other boats were even close to as affected as we were.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[gordmac]

I am guessing it is a sailing boat in which case it is compulsory to complain bitterly about the wash from any motor boat passing within a mile or so!
Actually just bumping this to see if anyone can post something constructive.

 

[richardabeattie]

Fairly small lightweight boat with the keel lifted up. Bound to wobble a bit.

 

[fisherman]

The other boats probably have fixed keels, do you leave the drop keel down? Not wanting to pee on your fireworks and I'm not a saily person but a review suggests this boat is not 'ocean going' and offshore trips need to be undertaken with caution.
http://www.timpenny.com.au/timpenny-yacht-fleets---clubs/notes-on-sailing-the-timpenny-670

 

[Timpenny670]

Many thanks for your comments so far. I had a thought in the middle of the night last night (lying awake worrying about her). In such a light boat, do you think that having a 25KG engine on one side would make her rock like this (we're talking window washing level of rock)? I read something about hanging weights from to side to lower center of gravity?

Keel it left up as i understand that it's not a good idea to leave it down.

'Fisherman', I would like to reassure you that my Timpenny is a learner boat for me, I will be using her in Southampton waters and maybe the Solent if the conditions are right. I'd like another 5 feet before embarking on anything more ambitious.

Looking forward to your further thoughts.

 

[Tranona]

I, as many people do, have dreams of sailing around Europe. From my base in Southampton, around France, Spain, Portugal and beyond. To get started I have recently bought a beautiful (30 year old) Timpenny670. Last Sunday, I took her around from the top of Fareham to her swing mooring in Southampton. Once moored up and engine safely stored in the cabin i started rowing away and noticed that she was rocking far more violently from a wash than the boats surrounding her. On wednesday i then took the wife out and she sailed fine but again freaked out on the mooring. I visited her again this Sunday (mill pond conditions) and whilst sitting on the foredeck with my son we were thrown violently from the wash of a passing tug. none of the other boats were even close to as affected as we were.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Welcome to the forum.

The boat you have is essentially a large dinghy with a cabin and relies on the ballasted drop keel for stability when sailing. If the keel is up there is little to stop it being thrown around by wash whereas the boats around you will have ballasted keels so they will react less to disturbance.

Your boat is a good one to start with provided you recognise its limitations. It is intended for sailing in relatively sheltered waters. However not really suitable for coastal sailing except in light conditions.

 

[ex-Gladys]

Also... boat movements can be "resonances" so that whilst you see nothing obvious, the rock/roll will be a resonant response, particularly if the movement builds up and then dies down. My lumpy old Colvic has a resonant pitching response to the famous Thames Estuary chop....

 

[Sandy]

What a lovely wee boat.

As you have discovered passing motor boats have no idea the affect their wash causes. My boat is 28 foot and I still curse, in my best Highland accent, when a motor boat passes at 10 knots.

 

[gordmac]

Thanks for emphasising my point Camelia!

 

[rptb1]

Looks like a great little boat and great for some inshore adventures. But it is a bit of a tea-tray and will get thrown about if the keel is up. Put that 400lb cast iron keel down and get weight down low when you're on board. When you're not on board it doesn't matter if it bobs around.

I'd like another 5 feet before embarking on anything more ambitious.

Length doesn't mean seaworthiness. Compare the shape of your boat to (for example) a Hurley 22 http://www.hurleyownersassociation.co.uk/images/h22mod_2_lge.jpg , in which people go offshore. Of course you might want more space for other reasons!

Hope I'm not patronising you -- you did say you were new. Welcome!

 

[prv]

Keel it left up as i understand that it's not a good idea to leave it down.

I've never had a lift-keel boat, but I can't see any reason not to leave it down if the water is deep enough at your mooring.

If not, if it will ground at low tide, then best left up.

Pete

 

[rptb1]

I've never had a lift-keel boat, but I can't see any reason not to leave it down if the water is deep enough at your mooring.

Barnacles jamming the keel down is what I've heard. No direct experience.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Welcome to "our world" and great good luck.

Forgive the thread-drift.
Your experience reminded me of my own recently, on a swinging mooring in the Tay estuary off the Royal Tay YC (Dundee).
Khamsin is 9.3metres, weighs about 3.5 tonnes + stores etc.
I was asleep, at about 03:00 when she started rocking violently - cups etc fell from open lockers etc, I nearly fell from bunk. I assumed it was the wash from a passing cargo vessel.

This happened again a few nights later, 02:00. I looked outside to catch the culprit - nothing in sight. (daylight down there in June at that time!)

I noticed later a very slight send coming in from the estuary - again this rocked her violently. And she weighs 3.5t, has a fin keel and is very stable in notable seas.

Obviously the form of that send is enough to create unusually strong "under-surface" disturbance.
Just thought I'd mention it.:encouragement:

 

[pmagowan]

I have a 28 foot long keel wooden boat which has a bit of mass to it and even so it can rock like mad in the right conditions. I expect that as long as the keel is up on yours you are going to bob about like a cork when anyone sends their wash your way. I wouldn't worry about it, corks don't often sink! Ways to reduce it are to increase mass, lower mass or spread mass wider. You can also change the alignment of your boat so that you are head on to most of the wash but that could be tricky. Changes in the arrangement of mass on the boat will all have particular effects which you can look up online but it tends to be a little unpredictable in real life so trial and error. An other alternative is to use buckets over the side which will resist movement through the water and dampen any roll. They will chaffe though.

 

[sarabande]

Have you considered rigging flopper stoppers while at anchor or on the buoy ?

http://www.offshore-sailor.com/boat-gear/27-flopper-stopper-you-can-make-yourself.html

 

[rptb1]

http://www.offshore-sailor.com/boat-gear/27-flopper-stopper-you-can-make-yourself.html

I like that. And it's the same shape as my anchor hatch. I wonder if it can do double duty…

 

[25931]

Many thanks for your comments so far. I had a thought in the middle of the night last night (lying awake worrying about her). In such a light boat, do you think that having a 25KG engine on one side would make her rock like this (we're talking window washing level of rock)? I read something about hanging weights from to side to lower center of gravity?

Keel it left up as i understand that it's not a good idea to leave it down.

'Fisherman', I would like to reassure you that my Timpenny is a learner boat for me, I will be using her in Southampton waters and maybe the Solent if the conditions are right. I'd like another 5 feet before embarking on anything more ambitious.

Looking forward to your further thoughts.

Why do you think that it´s not a good idea to leave the keel down ?
There is no reason to be less comfortable than necessary when on board.
If you are going to leave her long enough for enough beasties to grow and make future lifting difficult then it would be better to lift.
Enjoy your boat - smaller have crossed the Atlantic.

 

[prv]

If you are going to leave her long enough for enough beasties to grow and make future lifting difficult then it would be better to lift.

Then they'll grow and stop it dropping instead

(For this reason I once had to take the lid off the centreboard case of my uncle's Shrimper and start the keel down with a hammer.)

Pete

 

[25931]

Then they'll grow and stop it dropping instead

(For this reason I once had to take the lid off the centreboard case of my uncle's Shrimper and start the keel down with a hammer.)

Pete

Lesser of two evils and depends on circumstances but with my swing keel I prefer to leave it 3/4 up.

 

[Seajet]

She's quite light and doesn't have a huge amount of ballast even for her displacement; one thought would be adding some internal ballast beside the keelcase sides, but that must be REALLY secure, and would frankly be a pain to do.

Useful extra kit you could consider adding might be extra fresh water, bigger battery etc but they must be secure against wild conditions, imagine the boat inverting... extra kit will have a damping effect on her motion, but of course a slight loss in speed.

Lift keels don't usually have as much lateral area as fixed keels, so have less resisitance to rolling; lowering the keel - if the mooring allows - would help a bit but not much.

In answer to worries about barnacles etc jammng the keel up or down, all lift keel boats benefit greatly from having the keel dropped & raised every so often even if not going sailing.

If it is a drying mooring, a common trick with swing keelers is to leave the keel raised but the purchase with a couple of inches of slack, so the keel is ' self cleaning ' - but watch out for wear on the keel plate and pin.

If the sails are kept up such as on roller jib and stowed on boom, you could take them off and stow in the cabin to reduce a little weight high up.

In reality, the moves above would only help a little.

Sarabande's flopper stopper is well worth trying too.