New SOLAS regs and radar reflectors

[stefan_r]

I see that SOLAS (regulation 19.2.1.7 no less!!) now requires a radar reflector to be carried on all pleasure vessels (see p17 RYA mag Autumn02).

Anyone remember reviews carried out / recommendations made.

Apparently the reflector needs to work at 9 and 3ghz....

mailto: stefan@athito.com

 

[ccscott49]

Even on a steel boat? seems a bit overkill! Especially when theres still some debate as to there efficency! But regs is regs! B...ocks! Still trying to figure out a fire pump for mine, outside the engine room, with its own seacock, knickers!! They'll want us to put big inflatable rings around the boat next, automatically operated of course and make us wear nappies, incase we shit ourselves when we see a big ship! I've just about had enough of this nanny state bullshit!

 

[dickh]

The EchoMax seems to come out best in varous tests, failing that the Firdell Blipper, or a octahedral type, which is what I use hoisted to the crosstrees when necessary, but am thinking of an Echomax as a Xmas present. There appears to be an offer on the Echomax with mast brackets at the moment.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[robp]

Seem to remember reading that it "should have a reflective area of at least 15 SQ M" too. Rules out my recently fitted Firdel! Echomax seems to be the latest favourite. I think over 20 SQ M quoted?

 

[wpsalm]

The radar reflector mystery ..... As a commercial vessel operater in the Carribean for the past 20 or so years. have been observing small yachts on radar and near as I can tell passive radar reflectors don,t work. simply put if your broadside to an approaching ship you will show up on his radar if your end on you won,t .... consider most merchant vessels set there radar to 12 miles an object not much bigger than a football is not going to reflect much signal and yet the manufacturers would have you believe these things catch and somehow amplify the radar signal ...... just not true..... The first radar reflectors were wire mesh carefully folded up and carried by aircrews during the war so when they found themselves drifting around in the channel in their little rubber dingys in foggy weather they had some chance of being found.... how they made it from little rubber dingys to modern yachts is the mystery..... Wpsalm

 

[stefan_r]

Don\'t care if they don\'t work though...

I also remember reading they really aren't effective but at the end of the day if they don't work I still need one for the pen-pushers....what I want to know is if I need to spend the cash what's best, can then make up my own mind whether to go for 'costs £1 no use at all' or 'costs £2 errrrr yeah might make a bit of a difference' (add zeros as appropriate!!!!!)

mailto: stefan@athito.com

 

[Guest]

I have a Firdell RR 3/4 up the mast. In 10 metre visibility in the Thames Estuary on 16 August I was not run down by commercial shipping and the Walton Lifeboat and a fishing vessel conducting a rescue of a disabled motor boat close by clearly identified my vessel. Hopefully the commercial shipping did too, but I will never know. Maybe the r/r did its job, I know at the time I wished I had radar!

 

[kgi]

I'm with you what a load of rubbish,look at the article in PBO not so long ago, they tested them and they didn't work so whats the point, next they will want us to paint our boats day glo orange, and have alternating red and blue strobes at the top of the mast!!!!!!!! its bull of the highest order, are any of the mags going to scorn it......... i think not.....keith

 

[duncan]

interestingly it also says 'if practicable' in the regs; whatever that means! I understand that the RYA and others are trying to pin that one down.
It has been suggested that even a relatively low powered radar unit transmitting shows up well on another's unit - is this true in practice and does the frequency being used matter?

 

[SteveA]

I'm suprise that so many of you say that these reflectors don't work.

I too have a blipper fitted at the top of the mast and know that something works - the local lifeboat was carrying out an exercise with blacked out wheel house and successfully followed us out of the local narrow channel, and before you say that this was just good navigation the cox admitted later that they were follow our boat via radar.

SteveA

 

[charles_reed]

Radar reflectors are very hit and miss - all of them disappear at some angle of incidence.

A number of independent practical comparisons shows that all-round, in terms of value-for-money the octahedral (properly mounted) is the best all-rounder.
The trouble is that a small boat in a seaway wobbles so much that all reflectors come and go like will o' the wisps on a radar screen.

It takes a very good operator (navy trained) to see another x-transmission, even on the same frequency - I'd not hold out much hope for your average 3rd world deck-officer picking anything up.

Active avoidance is the only safe alternative.

 

[Bergman]

Frankly none of this stuff about radar reflectors makes any sense to me.

Bomber Command managed to get German air defense radar to respond to strips of aluminium foil (Window) Apparently they could'nt tell strips of foil from stream of bombers.

Next the Yanks spend megabucks making a stealth aircraft that won't show on radar. Apparently all they needed to do was put wings and big engine on a yacht.

Part of the basis of the stealth design was work done by a Russian scientist yet a German chap was able to fly his Cesnna through the Russian air defense network and land in Red Square.

Only time I've played with a radar I could plainly see a damn big car ferry a couple of miles behind the boat but couldn't find it on the radar screen, probably my fault but it didn't inspire confidence.

Be nice to be able to separate hard facts from opinion and myth on this subject.

 

[mikewilkes]

You mean to say that you have not fitted that big orange ring around your boat yet. President Blair will send one of his thugs after you.
Mike

 

[ccscott49]

How do you know it was your radar reflector he saw and not your engine or mast or whatever else you have which is metal?

 

[ccscott49]

I was a founder member of the escape commitee, who escaped just after he came to power and am now an illegal immigrant in various parts of the world, it seems to work for everybody else! I had escaped previously, but was caught and sent back, during the empress's rule!!

 

[bedouin]

I worry that even the best practical radar reflectors are marginal when it comes to being detected by a ship.

An active transponder seems to be a much better alternative but they still seem very pricy for what they are.

 

[brians]

Who will enforce this new reg? NM

 

[ianwright]

Just for the claim form,,,,,,

I carry a octahedral jobby but I sail as though I didn't.

If an item of boat gear works then well and good. If it fails, like an engine going bang, then I know about it and can (try to) fix it.
An item like a radar reflector that might be working, or might not, AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH , is a positive danger . I say again, use one but act as though no one can see you.
imho,,,,,,,,,,

IanW.

Vertue 203, Patience

 

[ponapay]

But if we all bought transponders,

teh price ould come down dramatically.

I agree that the transponder is by far the best way ahead.

Let's try to persuade a manufacturer to make a long run at a decent price (£75 - £100)

 

[ccscott49]

Re: But if we all bought transponders,

But don't the transponders make you look really BIG, thats not the idea either, then the ship would think he was surrounded by super tankers! Wouldn't this also cause problems?