New Sails - New Sheet Advice Please

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Hello,

I have received my new Vectran sails: FB main and roller reefing headsail. Is it worth upgrading the sheets and kicker to a more modern material, such as Dyneema with an external core?

Current Dimensions are: -

Main Sail 335 ft2 Sheet 12mm Polyester Multiplait; Genoa 545 ft2 Sheet 14mm Polyester Multiplait
Lewmar 44C with a ST option fitted, 2 Speed Winches for the roller and the smaller 8C for the Main but with no ST feature, only horned cleats, no jamb or cams cleats.

All bog standard stuff fitted to the boat and this will be my first experience as an owner with a more modern sail cloth. If I buy one of the cruising dyneemas, with an externa sheaf, for example, I could reduce sheet diameter but I am wondering if I would then need to change turning blocks? I'll probably just stick with the same diameter.

With modern sail material, is it recommended to go for a modern rope material, or would new polyester do the job without any real performance issues? Regarding dyneema options: for the genoa would it best to oder the sheets with a spliced eye each end and attach to the clew with a dyneema rope shackle?

The sheets are old, so they will be replaced. The kicker is polyester, newish, and I am wondering if the extra low stretch of dyneema would be worth it.

Look forward to your comments,

BlowingOldBoots.
 
Your old sheets will be fine, unless you think the new sails might feel embarassed in such company. For sheets use a rope that you like to handle whether it stretches 0.5% more than the ultimate will make no difference. Consider yourself fortunate that you are not a racer with grooves in their skin from handling dyneema just because it more expensive than a nice comfy polyester braid.
Years ago when we were racing my genny trimmer used to insist that we washed his sheets in Comfort, his girl friend did not like calloused hands and he did not like gloves.
 
Put the money towards dyneema halyards. They will make a difference over knicker elastic polyester.

With the kicker, the main problem is not enough grunt. Most boats seem to use puny 4:1 or 6:1 systems. My big boat has 16:1 and the the little on has 32:1!
 
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I think the only real difference the material makes is how the sails will respond to gusts of wind - less stretch means the sails keep their shape better. Unless you are a racing sailor that small difference is not going ot make a whole lot of difference to you.
 
Wow, congratulations.

No reason to use dyneema for sheets - the tiny % stretch is irrelevant as you’ll be trimming them if you care about anything near that granularity. And your hands won’t thank you for sheeting dyneema. Nor will your rig if you should Chinese-gybe with a dyneema sheet: imagine doing it with a steel wire.

However, there’s no excuse for not using dyneema for your vang. You don’t want the vang to stretch at all.

As others have said, it’s worth investing in dyneema halyards, and with a new decent sail, you’re going to notice the sag in luff tension in a blow if you don’t, and your new sail is capable of controlling your boat in the gusts much better than the old one if you keep it taut. You can of course reduce diameter for this, reducing friction and purchase cost; leave the same blocks.

Also so worth considering rigging a Cunningham if your sailmaker gave you an eye for one. You may not have noticed the need with an old polyester sail, but you’ll notice it with your new sail.

Your other control is the outhaul. It’s worth investing in dyneema for this so you can flatten sail in a blow - and keep it flat.

For Genoa sheets the same goes as for the mainsheet: dyneema serves no purpose except to cut your hands. And if it’s not soft-sheathed, God knows how many wraps you’d need to put around your winch to grip it.

If you don’t want to throw money at new sheets, get almost the same feel-good sticking the old ones in the washing machine with powder and fabric conditioner. If you do, then your idea of spliced eyes is a great one (I use a double-length Genoa sheet with a spliced eye in the middle) and dyneema soft shackle to the clew.
 
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Daydream believer said:
+1 and the thinner diameter reduces friction which is a boon. Clutches may need new innards but simple to update.
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Dyneema is all very well, but I would tend towards that which is comfortable to handle as well. Once it's on a winch it matters less.... If it was thin and slippy you might have less ease getting on the winch? 12mm rope on a boat of your size ought to work fine?
 
What are you trying to achieve by replacing the old stuff with a "more modern" material?

With the size of most sails I am convinced that using a high tech material is going to be of much advantage, apart from extracting cash from your bank at a faster rate.

Last summer I had new sails and the only change I made was to go from 12mm to 10mm for the halyards and genoa sheets.

On the other boat I sail, 25m, dyneema is fitted as standard but the forces are much, much bigger.
 
BelleSerene said:
Wow, congratulations.

No reason to use dyneema for sheets - the tiny % stretch is irrelevant as you’ll be trimming them if you care about anything near that granularity. And your hands won’t thank you for sheeting dyneema. Nor will your rig if you should Chinese-gybe with a dyneema sheet: imagine doing it with a steel wire.

However, there’s no excuse for not using dyneema for your vang. You don’t want the vang to stretch at all.

As others have said, it’s worth investing in dyneema halyards, and with a new decent sail, you’re going to notice the sag in luff tension in a blow if you don’t, and your new sail is capable of controlling your boat in the gusts much better than the old one if you keep it taut. You can of course reduce diameter for this, reducing friction and purchase cost; leave the same blocks.

Also so worth considering rigging a Cunningham if your sailmaker gave you an eye for one. You may not have noticed the need with an old polyester sail, but you’ll notice it with your new sail.

Your other control is the outhaul. It’s worth investing in dyneema for this so you can flatten sail in a blow - and keep it flat.

For Genoa sheets the same goes as for the mainsheet: dyneema serves no purpose except to cut your hands. And if it’s not soft-sheathed, God knows how many wraps you’d need to put around your winch to grip it.

If you don’t want to throw money at new sheets, get almost the same feel-good sticking the old ones in the washing machine with powder and fabric conditioner. If you do, then your idea of spliced eyes is a great one (I use a double-length Genoa sheet with a spliced eye in the middle) and dyneema soft shackle to the clew.
Click to expand...

I would agree with most of this except the suggestion for the cunningham. My understanding is that a vectran main sail should not stretch materially, so one should have a dyneema halyard, set it up tight and not adjust during sailing. On mine, we do the adjustments initially with the outhaul, then by reefing.
 
Resolution said:
My understanding is that a vectran main sail should not stretch materially, so one should have a dyneema halyard, set it up tight and not adjust during sailing. .
Click to expand...

I adjust my main & jib halyard (I do not just pull them up tight) & outhaul for different wind strengths & wind angles regularly during sailing,. Particularly the outhaul. Also the backstay. But then I am a compulsive "tweaker"
Fibercon main, laminate jib
Re the vang; I do have a dynema one but am not sure of its benefit. Sometimes in a gust or a big sea I think a bit of "give" eases the leach & takes some shock off the boom for a second or two. However, definitely needed dynema halyards. I could see creases coming & going in the sail as the old ones stretched
 
I am looking at my manky auld mainsheet... it goes to a self tailing winch and I suspect this of chewing the cover. I'd actually like to go up a size, if I can figure out how to re-set the Harken self tailer, but I'm certainly not worried about stretch in a mainsheet - on a biggish gaff cutter I actually used three strand nylon, to make sure there was some "give" in it, but she had a mainsheet buffer anyway.
 
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It's worth noting the comment on clutches. I stayed with the same diameter for a new dyneema main halyard, but it was rather more slippery than the old one in spite of that also being dyneema as well. I had to replace the cam and baseplate of the clutch, both of which were worn, albeit they were twenty years old. Spares were available from Spinlock.
 
8mm dynema will lift 4.5 Tonnes -depending on manufacturer. It is well worth going down a size if you can for the reduction in friction. One can still hoist sails Ok & i normally stick it on a winch if the line is hurting my hands when reefing.
 
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