New Princess P48

It maybe spotted doing sea trials in Plymouth sound over the next couple of months. I'm not sure that it is quite off line so I would think May is too early. I am sure that there would have also been a press release by now.
 
I was extremely impressed by the space in the V48 when we saw it at the Brits (well done Jimmy). A flybridge version would certainly make sense.

On a personal note I wouldn't own an IPS boat, or indeed another one with out-drives. The last out-drive boat we had was a Fairline Targa 35 probably 15 years ago.

I haven't spent anything like the annual maintenance cost of the 35 on the Phantom 42, the Princess 42 or the Princess 50 combined over those 15 years. A single set of cutlass bearings on the Phantom 42. For me it has to be shafts at that size. The fixed costs alone on IPS compared to shafts is worrying, when something out of the ordinary happens I suspect you need to be sitting down.

I do understand the benefits of non shafts on smaller / sportier craft but on a big lump of flybridge ?

I must qualify my comments by saying I'm not speaking from experience or personal knowledge on the IPS and a lot of my concerns may well be fuelled by hearsay.


Henry :)
 
henryf said:
I was extremely impressed by the space in the V48 when we saw it at the Brits (well done Jimmy). A flybridge version would certainly make sense.

On a personal note I wouldn't own an IPS boat, or indeed another one with out-drives. The last out-drive boat we had was a Fairline Targa 35 probably 15 years ago.

I haven't spent anything like the annual maintenance cost of the 35 on the Phantom 42, the Princess 42 or the Princess 50 combined over those 15 years. A single set of cutlass bearings on the Phantom 42. For me it has to be shafts at that size. The fixed costs alone on IPS compared to shafts is worrying, when something out of the ordinary happens I suspect you need to be sitting down.

I do understand the benefits of non shafts on smaller / sportier craft but on a big lump of flybridge ?

I must qualify my comments by saying I'm not speaking from experience or personal knowledge on the IPS and a lot of my concerns may well be fuelled by hearsay.


Henry :)
Click to expand...

I think that I will need to move Breaking Bad on before year 6!

We've had no problems thus far with the IPS 435hp on our 500, albeit sports not fly. The boat was designed around IPS and the fact that Prestige use jack shafts to get the blocks closer to the middle of the boat and the fact that because its a French boat the paper thin hull doesn't weigh much ;) mean that we get to cruise at around 85/95 LPH @ 18 - 20 kts.

The boat planes nicely between 16 and 29 kts, 2700 to 3400 rpm.

I think that is probably good for a 50' boat but of course a £20 per hour saving on a 150 hour season might sound like a 3k saving, the reality is that we spend half of those hours at 6 kts and get the same return as a boat with screws.

So a grand and a bit per year saving on fuel? perhaps, but I feel that we will be spending 3k per year to keep the thing in tip top condition. What we can't put a price on however is the stress that IPS and Joystick convenience has dissolved. You guys with tickets and salty diesel running through your veins perhaps don't see how nerve racking and counter intuitive driving a boat can be for a fool like me. Kudos to the proficient but until my usage is hampered by hours lost to faults I remain happy with IPS pods.

What I don't have is experience of ownership that spans > three seasons for any outdrive boat so let's see what is around the corner; 'cos we still love Breaking Bad and the bank would have to tear it from my cold, dead hands :)
 
I was browsing tinterweb yesterday and found some Azimut 43S for sale - 2007/8 all with IPS @ 500 hours or so. Nice looking boat but does anyone one know yet what it costs to rebuild an IPS leg ???
 
As I say my comments are not b based on experience.

Given the Princess stern gland design / lack of problems there is little for us to maintain on shafts. Prop clean & polish, give the shafts a good scraping to get the barnacles off and that's it. I suppose you would include a gearbox oil change if you were being totally transparent.

I hear what you say about ease of use and if it means you enjoy your boating then anything is a small price to pay. I've said it before on here, a decent shaft driven boat is very manoeuvrable and intuitive, more so than out-drives. Add bow and stern thrusters and it almost becomes fun :)

I wonder if people own smaller outdrive boats, find the handling a bit tricky and think shafts will be the same ?

Either way if we were all the same the world would be a dull old place.

Henry :)
 
kashurst said:
I was browsing tinterweb yesterday and found some Azimut 43S for sale - 2007/8 all with IPS @ 500 hours or so. Nice looking boat but does anyone one know yet what it costs to rebuild an IPS leg ???
Click to expand...

According to Mr Google
There seems to be a 5 Year "biggi " - that's routine not a repair $ USD 22,000

Sea Dawg has IPS 500 D series built in 2010 so we have only had the stainless steel seals and no water intrusion issues to date (675 engine hours and in salt water all year round except for annual maintenance haul). The big benefits of IPS in the beginning were maneveurability, performance and fuel economy. These days, many manufacturers can offer joystick control on straight shaft systems with thrusters and even multi motor outboard or stern drive systems, so manueverability is no longer the Holy Grail. Neither is economy as the IPS service costs compared to straight shafts consumes significantly more money than any dollars saved in fuel. IPS requires annual lube oil change (regardless of hours run) which requires a haul (it cannot be done in water). Every five years or 1200 hours (whichever comes first), the pods have to be dropped from the boat, disassembled and the shaft seals replaced. The cost of this little evolution on a twin engine boat is north of $22K AND as noted in an earlier post in this thread, having the wrong tech involved ends up causing more trouble. So the TCOO (total cost of ownership) of pods is impossible to justify IMHO. Regrettably, I did not figure all of this out until a couple of years into the POD world for Sea Dawg.

The design of the IPS pods with forward facing props make them very vulnerable to strikes whether from the bottom, dead heads or flotsam that gets run over by the boat.

As you infer 2nd hand FSH issues will rise to the surface ,the potential buyer could beat up the seller .
Or the smug and skint seller slide across the table some eye watering bills and fully stamped up VP SH
 
Portofino said:
According to Mr Google
There seems to be a 5 Year "biggi " - that's routine not a repair $ USD 22,000

Sea Dawg has IPS 500 D series built in 2010 so we have only had the stainless steel seals and no water intrusion issues to date (675 engine hours and in salt water all year round except for annual maintenance haul). The big benefits of IPS in the beginning were maneveurability, performance and fuel economy. These days, many manufacturers can offer joystick control on straight shaft systems with thrusters and even multi motor outboard or stern drive systems, so manueverability is no longer the Holy Grail. Neither is economy as the IPS service costs compared to straight shafts consumes significantly more money than any dollars saved in fuel. IPS requires annual lube oil change (regardless of hours run) which requires a haul (it cannot be done in water). Every five years or 1200 hours (whichever comes first), the pods have to be dropped from the boat, disassembled and the shaft seals replaced. The cost of this little evolution on a twin engine boat is north of $22K AND as noted in an earlier post in this thread, having the wrong tech involved ends up causing more trouble. So the TCOO (total cost of ownership) of pods is impossible to justify IMHO. Regrettably, I did not figure all of this out until a couple of years into the POD world for Sea Dawg.

The design of the IPS pods with forward facing props make them very vulnerable to strikes whether from the bottom, dead heads or flotsam that gets run over by the boat.

As you infer 2nd hand FSH issues will rise to the surface ,the potential buyer could beat up the seller .
Or the smug and skint seller slide across the table some eye watering bills and fully stamped up VP SH
Click to expand...

I've had a trawl around and found that post from last year on the Regal Owners forum...doesn't read as being definitive but I will get a full service schedule and price estimate from my Volvo rep and report back. It's an important issue for me as I shall have to budget accordingly!

I agree henry that a 30 to forty footer with legs on the back is ungainly and not much fun in any prevailing condition. The strain on our 38' with out drives and joystick in 15knt and above was tangible. It handled well but above 20knts of wind was not capable of close quarter manoeuvring.

Ips a little further forward with less weight to swing even on a much bigger heavier boat seems to be effortless, 25knt wind around Carrick roads and back at the marina are manageable but come off the joystick and you soon lose the plot! As we get closer to full time boating I will be far more interested in alternative set ups and the efficiencies that they deliver.

I'll get that schedule and prices and report back.....
 
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