New outboards on eBay

maxi77 said:
The CE mark is a manufacturer applied mark indicating the manufacturer claims the product meets the appropriate EU requirements. Quite how seriously it is enforced and what penalties could be applied to a chinese company I do not know.
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Simple. None. A non EU producer can label goods however they like, it is the legal responsibility of the first importer to the EU - whichever country therefore - to ensure compliance with all relevant CE norms. It is only the producers responsibility if that producer is already inside the EU.

So if you buy an advertised product direct from a non EU source or producer, it is your responsibility to ensure it conforms.

Normally, the producers EU based customer, be they distribitor or well known brand who intend to sell the goods in the EU, to have test certificates in their own name. If they are diligent (some are more diligent than others in my experience) they will initiate testing at a respected and accredited test lab and fund same. Test labs exist in China as well as EU countries.

Many of these outboards will be copies of existing products. If not licensed, they will probably be both poor quality and illegal under copyright law (patent infringment or passing off).
 
neale said:
Found it!
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Seems like rubbish to me.

Either that or someone needs to tell HTC is doing it wrong:

DSC00945.jpg


Or Sandisk
DSC00946.jpg


Both of those I just took. Phone from Vodafone. Sandisk reader from PC world/group.

So something clearly isn't right but using the CE for China Export is groundless IMO (As I have just shown)
 
Beyondhelp said:
Seems like rubbish to me.

Either that or someone needs to tell HTC is doing it wrong:

DSC00945.jpg


Or Sandisk
DSC00946.jpg


Both of those I just took. Phone from Vodafone. Sandisk reader from PC world/group.

So something clearly isn't right but using the CE for China Export is groundless IMO (As I have just shown)
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There is a subtle difference between the two "CE" marks. The clue is in the horizontal bar in the middle of the "E". Only one of them is the official CE mark, the one with the short bar:

ce_mark.gif


See http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/faq/ce-mark.htm
 
Just get a 2.5/3.3hp Mariner or Mercury....they're best

Personally, I'd get a second hand 3.3hp (has clutch) Mercury or Mariner 2 stoke instead of getting a new four stroke.

The two strokes are quieter, more responsive, easier to maintain, can be stored at any angle, etc, etc, lighter........

I've got one and as far as I'm concerned it's gold dust........
 
zikzik said:
Simple. None. A non EU producer can label goods however they like, it is the legal responsibility of the first importer to the EU - whichever country therefore - to ensure compliance with all relevant CE norms. It is only the producers responsibility if that producer is already inside the EU.

So if you buy an advertised product direct from a non EU source or producer, it is your responsibility to ensure it conforms.

QUOTE]

I don't think this is right. It is the responsibility of the importing distributor or retailor to ensure compliance as yu rightly state above, not the purchaser. BIS is responsible in the UK for regulating compliance.
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It's a point that will never be agreed on.
To my mind ( I have a Seagull, and Tohatsu 2.5 2 stroke and have had various 2 stroke Evinrudes. I now have a 4 stroke and have owned three other 4 strokes) the 4 stroke is a better engine with regard to noise, vibration, reliability, economy and are less fumey in use.
They are slightly heavier (21kg/25Kg in 4hp guise for instance) and yes you have to be sure to lay them down on the correct side. How hard can that be? Surely you pay attention to laying a motor down, whatever sort it is.
 
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Lakesailor said:
Surely you pay attention to laying a motor down, whatever sort it is.
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No afraid not. The outboard used to be just dumped in the lazerette. Usually made sure initially that the power head was higher than the prop but by the time warps and fenders and other stuff that lived in there had been hauled out a couple of times it could end up any which way!

In my own boat my Seagull goes in the cockpit locker the only way it will fit. That may or may not suit a fourstroke
 
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I seem to remember that 2 stroke engines were outlawed by the EU a few years ago, except for Strimmers nd Chainsaws because of weight problems with heavier fourstokes.

err except I have seen cheap 2 stroke generators in the likes of B&Q, Machine Mart etc.
So if they are "not allowed" to distribute 2 strokes how do they get away with it? After 4 years it cannot be old stock
 
rafiki_ said:
zikzik said:
Simple. None. A non EU producer can label goods however they like, it is the legal responsibility of the first importer to the EU - whichever country therefore - to ensure compliance with all relevant CE norms. It is only the producers responsibility if that producer is already inside the EU.

So if you buy an advertised product direct from a non EU source or producer, it is your responsibility to ensure it conforms.

QUOTE]

I don't think this is right. It is the responsibility of the importing distributor or retailor to ensure compliance as yu rightly state above, not the purchaser. BIS is responsible in the UK for regulating compliance.
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The responsibilty is with the first imported into the EU. If you, as a consumer, buy from a source outside the EU, you are responsible. Fact.

Of course if you buy one from a reseller or producer in, say Spain, or Greece, or Ireland, that company is inside the EU, so they are responsible for conformity.

We are talking about new goods here. Its likely to be different iof the goods are second hand.
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pappaecho said:
I seem to remember that 2 stroke engines were outlawed by the EU a few years ago, except for Strimmers nd Chainsaws because of weight problems with heavier fourstokes.

err except I have seen cheap 2 stroke generators in the likes of B&Q, Machine Mart etc.
So if they are "not allowed" to distribute 2 strokes how do they get away with it? After 4 years it cannot be old stock
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Only 2 strokes - with exceptions as written in this and other threads - that exhaust (discharge oil I assume) into water are now non-compliant.
 
pappaecho said:
I seem to remember that 2 stroke engines were outlawed by the EU a few years ago, except for Strimmers nd Chainsaws because of weight problems with heavier fourstokes.

err except I have seen cheap 2 stroke generators in the likes of B&Q, Machine Mart etc.
So if they are "not allowed" to distribute 2 strokes how do they get away with it? After 4 years it cannot be old stock
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The problems are due to emissions regulations that became effective as part of the Recreational Craft Directive in 2007.

They only apply to recreational water craft.... so not to garden machinery etc ...only to boats and only to boats used for recreational purposes.

They dont apply specifically to two strokes but it is the conventional 2 strokes using premixed fuel that do not comply. They apply to 4 strokes and equally to inboard and outboard engines.

Large compliant 2 stroke outboards have been developed by some manufacturers ( Evinrude and Mercury/ Mariner) using direct fuel and oil injection methods.

The RCD also includes emission standards that apply to diesel engines

For full details you will have to read the RCD but there is a brief explanation of how outboards are affected on the Mercury and Mariner websites:- http://www.mercurymarine.co.uk/pdfs/mercury_laws.pdf
 
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was told a few weeks ago by a dealer ( who was selling some ) that the metal in the castings are very soft......even the "good/better" Chinese outboards.....

I would not buy any of them.
 
Tremlett 15 said:
was told a few weeks ago by a dealer ( who was selling some ) that the metal in the castings are very soft......even the "good/better" Chinese outboards.....

I would not buy any of them.
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They might be, but are probably not. Last year, I witnessed a range of 4 stroke outboards (can't remember the brand on them - but sold in the US only I think) being made in a Chinese factory. They were definately Yamaha related in looks and were being carefully and probably well made. They claimed they were made under a Yamaha licence (these do exist). When I expressed an interest in selling them here, they made the right noises but never sent any details despite follow up requests.

The products I was there to see did not pass our QA, nor did the factory (conditions for workers etc). We did get samples and details of that product but have not felt able to move forward with it.

This factory was probably the busiest factory I have ever seen. The stuff looked and possibly was good. But they cut all the corners that most of us consider unaceptable. A market clearly exists though or they would be gone now.

Interestingly, the operational boss, the son of the owner, received an education in the UK and understood our ways and language as well as we do. I will avoid the possible drift of how they sell goods from this base and how they might soon be able to finance the accreditations (including major factory improvements) they need to sell to serious / careful customers.
 
I was tempted by one of these. A few months ago I emailed the supplier and asked 1. Could I collect it in person (it was advertised as being "at Portsmouth" ; and 2. how are they able to supply a new 2 stroke for non commercial use to the UK market. They responded overnight - in relation to 1, they said that they were out of stock in Portsmouth at the moment, but no problem they would supply direct from China (or Hong Kong - I forget which now) ... And in relation to 2, ... they didn't answer that question. So I bought a late model second hand 2 stroke 4hp mercury instead.
 
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