New Marine Diesel on the way

[BlueSkyNick]

As there a a number of threads on the go (Premier and Soltron, red diesel in Belgium, etc) I hope this will cover off a number of concerns.

This is information I have been provided in the last week from WP, one of the biggest suppliers of diesel to marinas, at least in the Solent area.

A new Marine Diesel product will be launched nationally which will be standard sulphur (up to 1000ppm) and with no FAME. It will have no dye and therefore look the same as road diesel.

Heating and agricultural gasoil will continue to be dyed red, and will go to Ultra Low Sulphur, without any FAME (Bio) content.

The upside is that, after 2 years of machinations, the Govt have prevented sea-going boats being forced into the dangers of FAME in their tanks and engines. It also means that visitors from Europe, especially Belgium and Holland do not risk prosecution by having red fuel in their tanks; ditto for UK boats visiting Europe.

The downside is that the suppliers and Govt can now screw the boat owners, and hence marine industry, on price and taxes without affecting the poor farmers! This is IMHO, only time will tell.

The changeover to the new fuel has been postponed several times already to get all the refineries into line, and now any fuel from early December onwards will be the new Marine Diesel.

Premier Marinas are selling fuel with Soltron already added as a marketing tactic, This is unique to Premier and other marine diesel will NOT have any additives for the foreseeable future.

 

[gerry99]

Nick, will marinas have to clean their existing tanks of red diesel first of all or will it just clear through over time?

 

[Blueboatman]

Helpful, thanx for posting.

Nice new boat btw but you prob know that.

 

[colhel]

The downside is that the suppliers and Govt can now screw the boat owners, and hence marine industry, on price and taxes without affecting the poor farmers! This is IMHO, only time will tell.

The changeover to the new fuel has been postponed several times already to get all the refineries into line, and now any fuel from early December onwards will be the new Marine Diesel.

.

So are they not putting red dye in so people can go to Belgium?

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Nick, will marinas have to clean their existing tanks of red diesel first of all or will it just clear through over time?

Not that I am aware of Gerry, that would mean dumping several hundred litres because the pump pipes don't go to the bottom.

A good marina ( ) will sell as much as practically possible before filling up with the new stuff to minimise the amount of residual dye and hence the tinting going forward.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

So are they not putting red dye in so people can go to Belgium?

No that is just one of the side effects, that it gets over the current problem by coming into line with Europe.

They are leaving the dye in heating and agricultural gasoil because that is changing to low sulphur so they need to differentiate between the two. Allegedly there was talk of putting blue dye into marine diesel but this has been discounted.

 

[Burnham Bob]

Well that would seem to solve all the problems MoodyNick - as far as the diesel being uncoloured which is all the Belgians can test for. However, presumably the 60:40 split will still be available for those people that use diesel for cooking and heating onboard.

Any futher news and updates will be most welcome.

 

[david_bagshaw]

Of course it will gp the same way as leaded petrol

yes there will be a supply, but......

it will be expensive, becoming more expensive, & probably have a higher duty tax regime as it is not as enviro friendly as the excuse.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Well that would seem to solve all the problems MoodyNick - as far as the diesel being uncoloured which is all the Belgians can test for. However, presumably the 60:40 split will still be available for those people that use diesel for cooking and heating onboard.

Any futher news and updates will be most welcome.

Nothing new said about any changes to the duty at this stage - but it does make a 'boat only' regime possible.

 

[mikemanor]

What about on Inland Waterways ?

All very good except that on Inland Waterways, EU Directive 2009/30/EC – Effective 01 January 2011 - applies, and the diesel must by Ultra Low Sulphur 10 ppm (ULSD).

http://www.echamicrobiology.co.uk/blog/2011,3,12/default.aspx

Now at present, and for the past year, Inland marinas in our area have already been supplied with ULSD No Fame coloured red. Presumably this will this continue as it seems to be the new standard for all red diesel? However, boats berthed as far inland as Bedford go to sea via The Wash; and I guess the same is true on the non-tidal Thames. So what if they fill up on the coast with the new white marine diesel (standard sulphur 1000ppm) and then come back inland?

What a mess!

 

[BlueSkyNick]

My assumption (nothing more) is that Inland waterways will stick to red gasoil (ie ULSD), to keep the pollution down.

 

[Koeketiene]

A new Marine Diesel product will be launched nationally which will be standard sulphur (up to 1000ppm) and with no FAME. It will have no dye and therefore look the same as road diesel.

Till marines are forced to clean their tanks, this will not make much difference in the short term as diesel will be 'pink' for some time to come.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Till marines are forced to clean their tanks, this will not make much difference in the short term as diesel will be 'pink' for some time to come.

I refer the writer to post #4 above.

 

[2Tizwoz]

Commercial boats are permitted to use tax free (red) fuel. How will they be supplied?

Marine voyages - excise duty relief for mineral (hydrocarbon) oil - click to view the HMRC website

'If your vessel is a commercial vessel and you use it on a marine voyage then it is an 'eligible vessel' and you can claim relief. For example, if you operate one of the following types of vessel, you would be eligible to claim relief on the fuel used, as long as you comply with the other requirements of this notice:

■foreign-going commercial vessels
■coastal vessels
■dive boats
■UK fishing boats
■foreign-owned fishing boats refuelling in the UK
■ferries, lighters, pilot boats, tugs, tenders and other similar vessels
■certain safety/rescue vessels - see Section 2.4
■vessels undergoing trials (but not basin or dock trials whilst stationary, that is, not 'engaged on a voyage')
■hovercraft, and
■passenger vessels used for pleasure trips - see Section 2.5.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Exactly as they are now - by making a 0% Duty Declaration at the time of filling, just like leisure users claim 60% or whatever.

 

[BartW]

My assumption (nothing more) is that Inland waterways will stick to red gasoil (ie ULSD), to keep the pollution down.

last year I was a week in cornwall with my mobo, and this year a week in schotland,
after having filled the boat with local RED diesel, she gave more exhaust smoke and smell, much more then here in Belgium, Holland, or france, where we use white diesel (usually road diesel) in the boat,

so IMHO
in UK you have been using lower quality, more sulfer RED diesel, same red as used for agriculture and heating,

while being pushed by europe, UK has to follow same regulations as central europe,

white diesel for cars, trucks and leisure boating
red diesel, for agriculture and heating
Blue diesel for professional marine use (fishing boats, cruise ships, ...)

and this seems exactly what UK is introducing today

so here in central europe, the white boat diesel is the same as road diesel,
prices should be approx. the same, but are usually more expensive in marina's and that's not extra tax, but more profit for the fuel station.

perhaps when the UK boating community keeps on complaining about this, they can continue to use the 60/40 split on boat diesel purchases, (you folks use a lot an heating....)
but I was quite surprised that in Falmouth, the 60/40 red boating diesel was more expensive then our road diesel,

all IMHO ( have no real objective know how about this subject)

 

[Koeketiene]

So are they not putting red dye in so people can go to Belgium?

Till marines are forced to clean their tanks, this will not make much difference in the short term as diesel will be 'pink' for some time to come.

I refer the writer to post #4 above.

Your point is?

If it's not to tackle the potential problems UK based may encounter when sailing abroad, what's the bloody point?

 

[colhel]

Your point is?

If it's not to tackle the potential problems UK based may encounter when sailing abroad, what's the bloody point?

My point, probably badly made, about taking the red dye out was, if there is no distinction between marine and road diesel, would the price of marine diesel increase for all leisure boaters just because the Belgians aren't playing ball (or so it seems to me). ie taxed the same as road diesel.

 

[alan17]

Red/white/blue

Sounds like colours for a flag or 2!

It is bound to be a mess. It is a government initiative! Will take ages to come in and be a total waste of time.

Just an after thought. If marine diesel is white and indistinguisable from white road legal and cheaper than road I wonder how much will end up in cars.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Your point is?

If it's not to tackle the potential problems UK based may encounter when sailing abroad, what's the bloody point?

I should have referred you to Post #5 (obviously).

The point is that red gasoil can change to ULSD, Marine diesel does not need to follow. It also means that the suppliers and Govt can increase the cost of marine diesel independantly of agriculture and heating.