New Fairline F//LINE

[TheOrs]

I'm going to hazard a guess that this isn't the first, and won't be the last, boat show boat from any manufacturer that has been rushed out the door in less than perfect condition to hit the show deadline.

Agree with Pete, it won't reach its final customer like this, it'll probably go back to the factory for 'final rectification', along with 50% of the other boats at the show!

I'm guessing it's a prototype and the guys were still working on it as it was being loaded onto the lorry; having been flat out for the previous two or three weeks just to get it to the show.

Been there, done that! (kit cars, not boats)

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

L
I don't know Pete. Sketches had a mancini feel but surely another designer will need to take the project forward.

Are Fairline still tied up with Vripack? Dont Vripack have their own in house design dept? I'd be surprised if such an established yacht and superyacht design studio couldnt style a 70 and 80 footer for Fairline, as well as doing the hull and systems

 

[jrudge]

God, you're a miserable sod Porto!

Colour is interesting, I assume it's the white one from London, wrapped in blue for Cannes and re-wrapped in grey for Genoa.

Spoke to Miles at Southampton

It was wrapped. Wrap fell off. Funny that - it is not fit for purpose. Horrid stuff.

The grey white colour is the real gel coat

 

[jfm]

Are Fairline still tied up with Vripack? Dont Vripack have their own in house design dept? I'd be surprised if such an established yacht and superyacht design studio couldnt style a 70 and 80 footer for Fairline, as well as doing the hull and systems

I don't know anything other than the odd bit of hearsay. I expect the Vripack deal is still in place. FL have a new design boss https://www.fairline.com/en/news/fa...ne-huntley-as-head-of-design-and-engineering/ (stand back from your screen if you have a 20 inch monitor - you don't want to be be that close ) and I don't know if the 8x as shown at Cannes is his or Mancini's. As I said I reckon it is a good design (needs some small tweaks) so I'd like it to happen, by 2022. It is easy to think of jumping to another brand but FL is the only builder who will do the type of custom work I want, in EN and in UK. Some might say that other boats don't need customising but it aint true imho; Princess only just discovered in 2019 what a fuel tank is when they put a proper 11k litres in Y85; FL just put in as many litres as you want during the build. And so on. Princess Y85 will definitely do though, if there is no FL8x. Ferretti is non starter despite the general loveliness of 780 and 850 - fuel tanks are comedy sized and internal staircase retrofit is harder than on Y85, and imho Y85 has much better interior use of space than F850 for the same size boat. Obvs I'd prefer Freti build quality but hoping P quality improvements will be enough and one can retrofix things. First world problems

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Ferretti is non starter despite the general loveliness of 780 and 850 - fuel tanks are comedy sized and internal staircase retrofit is harder than on Y85, and imho Y85 has much better interior use of space than F850 for the same size boat. Obvs I'd prefer Freti build quality but hoping P quality improvements will be enough and one can retrofix things. First world problems

Not sure the Ferretti build quality is what it was either, at least in the sub 70ft models. Understand your reasoning completely. If I was laying down 3-4 million quid on a boat, I'd want it customisable exactly as I want it, not how some Italian designer thinks I want it and if Fairline are willing and able to offer that customisation, then I would have no hesitation in going with them. Also the chance to influence the design and features of a brand new boat would be interesting. Bet you buy 2 like the 78, the first one as your prototype and the second as your finished article

 

[henryf]

Princess Y85 will definitely do though, if there is no FL8x. Ferretti is non starter despite the general loveliness of 780 and 850 - fuel tanks are comedy sized and internal staircase retrofit is harder than on Y85, and imho Y85 has much better interior use of space than F850 for the same size boat.

I've reserved a slot in my forum posting diary. Might start something along the lines of: "After years drifting in the wilderness it was a genuine delight to see the look of inner tranquility on JFM's face. A distinguished and handsome man he looked two decades younger when I bumped into him in the Princess hospitality area the other day."

You know it makes sense Rodney......

H

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Not sure the Ferretti build quality is what it was either, at least in the sub 70ft models. Understand your reasoning completely. If I was laying down 3-4 million quid on a boat, I'd want it customisable exactly as I want it, not how some Italian designer thinks I want it and if Fairline are willing and able to offer that customisation, then I would have no hesitation in going with them. Also the chance to influence the design and features of a brand new boat would be interesting. Bet you buy 2 like the 78, the first one as your prototype and the second as your finished article

Ferretti is much better to Princess atm.
1. Ferretti is building its infused boats in transparent gel, and then spraying later to be sure no Delamination issues are happening, and if they happen you can fix in production.
Princess are not, and so far in the last few years I have heard a few delamination issues and seen two.
Delamination is a big concern for those building in infusion especially those building with the Diab system (IMO the weaker one). I heard FG also switched to the Core-Cell system which is better and bottoms are still fully solid glass. AFAIK Princess is also fully solid glass. Resin-infused but not core.
Infusion is prone to resin starvation spots which then generate delamination, which is a big structural concern and some builders are not doing enough to prevent this.
One thing to prevent is to build in transparent gel, as the resin starvation spots are easilty caught.
A general ratio of new builds with del is about 10%.

I heard (not official) that Mancini is now fully Azimut tied for production motor boats builds, and who would blame him, in a year he did already four projects (S10, 78 Fly, S8, and a new Trideck 37m project).
Which is just as much with Fairline in three years.
I would say the news is near official since Fairline are not mentioning anything about him anymore.

 

[Portofino]

Yes they are all spray painted everything in the FG range inc the beige on the std FB .
I was a bit surprised when I found that out @ the preview show in Monaco .
It came about when I asked if they could supply an Itama in other colours , Answer was yes , not just Itama are painted but everything you see .
I knew Pershing were previously hence the silvers and gold , but I thought Itama were blue gel coat and Deleted User FB beige gel coat .
But then they recently started to make white and cream Itama and Mikes FB type looked paler , plus Pershing are grey / silver .So I figured “ what’s with all theses different colours every 5 mins “
You see Pershing and Itama are made on the same line in Fori and more likely to be hammered in a sea , get rough treatment so any defect from a lamination aspect is gonna show earlier than a guy chugging round at 20 knots max in something else .
I imagine the Rivas are driven hard too in the 30 + knots area , and they happen to come in a myriad of fashionable colours.Now we know why .
So it makes sense rather than x your fingers and bury your head in the sand , it’s better to pre empt the problem .


But I did not find out WHY .... so thanks PYB :encouragement:
Makes sense when you explain the delamination thing .Gotcha !

As far as the other touch / feel / fit n finish they ( the whole FG range ) felt identical and Uber high quality.
No rattles , no squeaks ,no vibrations , firm shut of doors and for me even panel gaps , lined up close fitting everything.
As much as I tried to nit pic i count find faults in anything .

The boss Mr Chinese was there , mulling about .Wouldn't you if it was your business ?

I don’t buy into the argument of showing pre production stuff 95 % finished like the caulk on that FL F33 shown at Genoa .
That’s a lazy defence.

As I said in another thread somethings happened quality wise ( not that there was a problem to solve ) .
I think the sales are stacking up too .

 

[petem]

Anyone got any experience of repairing painted boats?

I'm told that you can't just blend the paint in as you would a car and often have to re-paint large areas to get a decent match. More time ashore in a hangar or tent, loads of prep required, more expense, etc.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Anyone got any experience of repairing painted boats?

I'm told that you can't just blend the paint in as you would a car and often have to re-paint large areas to get a decent match. More time ashore in a hangar or tent, loads of prep required, more expense, etc.

it easier to repair paint then gel, not by little. There is no 100% way to match color gel-coat, because of its texture its thickness. Gel also absorbs water which can make the temp change inside and therefore react different to the heat.
Boats are build in gelcoat cause it saves time, out of the mould and you're done.
Who ever wants high quality control paints there boats. Look at painted Hatteras from the eighties when they switch to paint, the boats are still the same.
Painted blue in Pershing from 2000 is also the same.

Now if any builder tells you otherwise and you want to believe him go ahead. Lol a builder also said wrapping is the best option, cause they are offering on the boats.
But hey besides asking the Pros you have Google you can search and make your own conclusion.

 

[petem]

Not sure I understand your point. The few Gelcoat repairs that I've needed to my boat have been done so that they are pretty much, if not absolutely invisible. I use an ex Fairline guy and it costs me £50 or so.

Conversely, we have a grey painted Pershing in the marina. It was ashore for another re-spray this year, the one done last year having been a poor job. It'll need re-painting again in a few years I'm told.

There's also a painted FL T38 Shadow in the marina. That has some very minor damage that will require a major re-paint to get a decent finish. Owner very unhappy.

 

[Portofino]

It’s a big subject boat paint .
Awlgrip is the one that’s hard to colour match with repairs , but it’s harder and just needs washing .
Du Ponts Omron is a softer paint that can be waxed and buffed like gel coat and is said easy to match repairs .

I,am in the process of getting quotes / sounding out a few yards in Amico , here in Loano who paint super yachts btw to get my boat refurbed / painted .

All the real big boats SY,s are painted .
It’s as PYB says it seems a gel coat colour is just quicker with smaller boats .
There’s obviously a transition point where the switch from gel to paint occurs .
As said various drivers .
Fast ish boats more likely to expose delamination errors ( despite best practice ) .
Let’s face it Pete a FL Targa GTO isn’t ever gonna see 30 + knots in the real world like Rivas , Pershing and Itama and most of the bigger variants of latter top out above 40 knots .Any 60 ft version of those three is likely to wave bashing .

As I said FG group seem to aligned quality decisions across the range .
So they have migrated the transparency of resin across the range from the faster stuff and some other quality stuff has come back , stuff like engine mounts , anti vibration tactics and such forth etc etc .

It’s a nice direction of travel , customers seem to holding up bearing the costs .
Tbo i was a bit sceptical of this paint thing thinking gel coat is the only ( and therefore correct ) way .

These are all painted

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Not sure I understand your point. The few Gelcoat repairs that I've needed to my boat have been done so that they are pretty much, if not absolutely invisible. I use an ex Fairline guy and it costs me £50 or so.

Conversely, we have a grey painted Pershing in the marina. It was ashore for another re-spray this year, the one done last year having been a poor job. It'll need re-painting again in a few years I'm told.

There's also a painted FL T38 Shadow in the marina. That has some very minor damage that will require a major re-paint to get a decent finish. Owner very unhappy.

All Princess / Fairline / Sunseeker in blue gel in Malta needs repaint after five years.

With Dupont and a good applicator it will serve you ten or more. Touch up repairs in gel are harder to match, and the bigger they are the harder to match.

It is obvious that with metalic or glittery stuff it starts to get complicated and then you need an even better applicator.

But like with like paint is not 10% better but 100% better. Navy blue to navy blue, white to white, and making metallic with gel is near to impossible.
Sure to each his own, I just had a client who re-did a 2002 Itama 42 in original blue gel, he insisted to have it original so we did it that way after we traced the original gel from Rome.
But paint would have been much better process.

The more shiny and nice the gel-coat is, the less thickness boat builders can use. Some shiny new gel you cannot even use 1 mm.

If the painter could not paint well with Dupont, I do not want to imagine what he would do with gel....

 

[jfm]

I disagree a lot of the above (having had awlgrip as well as gelcoat) but short of time. I'm very sceptical ref the above claims that small Ferretti hulls are painted and I'll bet a virtual pint that the smaller stuff up to 80 feet, if not 100 feet, is unpainted. Will happily stand corrected if wrong because I don't know first hand and am shooting from hip

On general build quality, Ferretti quality is high, but what is the point if the fuel tanks are a comedy size on their new models?

And I get the need to see dry patches in vacuum infused hulls, but plenty of builders use clear gel below the waterline where the delam risk is greater (due to thicker lay up in the uncored part of the hull, and obvs the greater need to have no delam in these areas).

 

[Portofino]

I disagree a lot of the above (having had awlgrip as well as gelcoat) but short of time. I'm very sceptical ref the above claims that small Ferretti hulls are painted and I'll bet a virtual pint that the smaller stuff up to 80 feet, if not 100 feet, is unpainted. Will happily stand corrected if wrong because I don't know first hand and am shooting from hip

On general build quality, Ferretti quality is high, but what is the point if the fuel tanks are a comedy size on their new models?

And I get the need to see dry patches in vacuum infused hulls, but plenty of builders use clear gel below the waterline where the delam risk is greater (due to thicker lay up in the uncored part of the hull, and obvs the greater need to have no delam in these areas).

As I said I only found out about the FG and the paint thing a couple of weeks back , while stud on a blue new Itama ,to be told it’s paint , they all are as the guy waved his arms pointing at every boat in the Yacht club .
But I didn’t know why ....Then .
Equally surprised .
Anyhow I’m getting revved up because thinking about a paint job on mine while it’s in IT and next to a Amico yard .
I’d have thought you and your Bro perhaps have been researching the subject ?
Here’s a few pics taken early this month .Any plans ?

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

On general build quality, Ferretti quality is high, but what is the point if the fuel tanks are a comedy size on their new models?
/QUOTE]

Yes that is a let down, from a builder who used to have 20-30% more fuel capacity in Norberto's time. I was speaking also about this re the new Riva DolceRiva.

 

[petem]

All Princess / Fairline / Sunseeker in blue gel in Malta needs repaint after five years.

I'm surprised by that.

Incidentally, I was admiring a neighbour's T34 the other day, and the flanks of the hull were still looking very shiny (amazing for the end of the season). Boat maintenance guys were on it and said they use A-glaze. I'm not sure how long it's been in the Med.

 

[jfm]

@porto #195: That’s kinda my point Porto - a salesman said it. Some of them are technically good; others not!

Painting is expensive and frankly there isn’t headroom in ferretti 670 type margins for it. There is in Pershing.

FWIW, and not saying this is a perfect measure of cost, the option upgrade list price to have a new build princess y85 hull painted is £165k ex vat

Yup my brother is researching a full hull paint job on the Aquastar. Needs it. Probably this winter, possibly next. One option btw for non metallics like this is expert brush on followed by post curing polish. Plenty of super yachts are brush painted.

PS, talking of hulls and quality, I’d recommend any boatbuilder geeks to look at how princess have joined the hull and deck on Y85. The rubbing strake stops well short of the bow and from there forwards they have done an invisible joint. The deck moulding has no release angle. It’s what Princess have done on their other bigger boats and what fairline did on sq 78&65, and now do on sq68, but taken to a whole new level. Ferretti don’t do this even on 920. This is proper boatbuilding and princess should be commended for it (as I have said before on here) but the way they have done it on Y85 is truly outstanding. On this point it’s a case of eat your heart out ferretti.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yes that is a let down, from a builder who used to have 20-30% more fuel capacity in Norberto's time. I was speaking also about this re the new Riva DolceRiva.

Yup just another example of Chinese Ferretti cost cutting. Lighter, narrower boats need smaller engines which need smaller tanks

 

[jfm]

Yup just another example of Chinese Ferretti cost cutting. Lighter, narrower boats need smaller engines which need smaller tanks

mike, ferretti 850 (6750 litres) has the same approximate displacement and 4000hp as suseeker 86 and princess y85 (both 11000 litres), so the comedy fuel tanks translate to meaningfully smaller range. Like, to do Côte d’Azur to Mallorca planing you have to consider a stop @ Palamos/Barcelona, which is rubbish.