New Engine Selection

[Chuncky]

It's the usual boat fault-fixing problem - a £500-job becomes £5,000

Volvo Penta MD2030 (around 2000 hours) and 120S saildrive. Problems going from forward to neutral (huge clunk, engine nearly stalls, alarm note sounds) and sticking intermittently in both forward and reverse. I naively expect a £500 repair.

Note - all prices include VAT

I extract gearbox. VP dealer inspects gearbox, confirms internal issues and provides estimate of >£5k for repair. The main cost is the upper and lower gear set at > £1.8k each. Well, I was a bit surprised, you might say. I asked about the cost and the guy who did the strip down (who wasn't aware of the costs) confirms that the gearbox is beyond economic repair. But it's not a problem, dealer has a gearbox and 130S saildrive which they can let me have for >£5k. Bargain. (I believe that a significant chunk of the cost (£800) is associated with an adaptor plate to make the 130S greabox suitable for use with MD2030 engine).

The online listed cost of a new VP D1-30 engine and 130S saildrive seems to be around £8k - £8.5k, or £7k if I trade in the existing engine. So the total differential between only the gearbox/saildrive (£5.5k) and a new engine (including trade in) is less than £2k. I'm therefore very tempted smash up the £2-coin collecting jar and to go for the full package.

We intend keping the boat long term (we've had her for 13 years), so selling's not a consderation, espcially with a non-functioning drive train.

If I'm going to replace the whole shooting-match with new I don't really have an option, other than to use VP, unfortunately. Having said that, our existing VP engine has been (touch wood) very reliable to date. It's just the 120S gearbox that's made of papier mache.

What's the collective wisdom on the VP D1-30? I've read some criticism of the electronic control system reliability. Any first-hand experience?

 

[Slowtack]

Yep.............see other threads on here and US fora.
I am on control box No 4 since 2017 and less than 300 hours overall over three seasons, boat not launched in 2020.
The mechanical engine itself is fine and so is the saildrive.
As advised by the Volvo agent I have installed bypass switches to cater for another MDI failure.
Not good enough for that level of investment imho and devalues the boat for any subsequent resale.
They changed from old style relays to solid state at some stage between 2006 and 2017 and hence the issues.

 

[Tranona]

No adaptor needed to fit a 130 drive to a 2030 - I have done it. Fitted by a Volvo dealer in a day. However that was when the dealer could buy an engine/drive and split them so the drive "only" cost £2400. You do need to change the prop, reducing the pitch by 1" as the reduction ratio is lower so raising the engine revs.

I have owned both 2030 and D1 30, and while I preferred the 2030 as it seemed quieter, I have had no problems at all with the D1 30. A 2015 engine and had the control box changed under a general recall although there was nothing wrong with it and would have no hesitation in buying another one - indeed it is currently at the top of the list for re-engine in a boat I have just bought. While the MDI unit which converts the mechanical bits to the electronic EVC system is not the ideal bit of kit, the problems were related to a relatively short period of production and this series of engines has been in production since 2005 and there are tens of thousands in use.

An alternative is to buy a used 120 or 130 drive from here marineenterprisesltd.co.uk which will cost with fitting about £2500. However if you really are intending keeping the boat suggest you bite the bullet and buy the latest engine.

BTW you have been unlucky with the drive - they are extremely robust and unstressed with a 2030 - they are the same as used in up to 55hp. Your failure was similar to mine except that mine seized totally after 3500 hours BUT most of those hours were as a charter boat in Greece.

 

[Laminar Flow]

You do need to change the prop, reducing the pitch by 1" as the reduction ratio is lower so raising the engine revs.

It is possible to have the pitch of a prop changed by up to 2". I had ours pitched up by 1.5" a couple of years ago at a cost of 70 Euro.

 

[jwfrary]

D1 is a good engine on the whole well packaged and you will find the alternator which is pretty large as standard and battery sensing better and the poly vee belt is far cleaner and easier as well.
The MDI thing is it's only Achilles heal and tbf quite rare now, though not unheard of.

 

[Tranona]

It is possible to have the pitch of a prop changed by up to 2". I had ours pitched up by 1.5" a couple of years ago at a cost of 70 Euro.

Not possible on a saildrive though. Standard prop is alloy and folding/ feathering usually need new blades, although some like Featherstream and Maxprop can be re-pitched within the mechanism.

 

[Stemar]

Daft idea, but might it be time to look at electric power, Uma style?

I've no idea how the costs stack up or whether it would suit your type of sailing, but I'd certainly give it some thought

 

[Daydream believer]

Friend of mine had the same problem. Could not change gear etc. He nearly rammed the pontoon a speed one day & only quick thinking by his son to stop the engine saved the day. He had bought a second hand saildrive on ebay as a spare so he could swop but decided to strip it & find how it all worked. After a lot of faffing he got to learn about it.
He then contacted volvo & spoke to a particularly helpful engineer. He said that the gear change issue could be sorted not by changing shims etc ( which is one of the things he thought might be needed) but just by using a totally different oil. He had a job locating the type, but having done so, the gearbox started to work properly & for the last 2 years he has had no issues.
He has no idea why such a simple answer worked but it did & saved him from an expensive replacement as the second hand drive was US anyway.
This will not help the Op-- but anyone searching on this thread may try checking with Volvo first, Could save a few £s

 

[TiggerToo]

Daft idea, but might it be time to look at electric power, Uma style?

I've no idea how the costs stack up or whether it would suit your type of sailing, but I'd certainly give it some thought

I have bitten the bullet... but considered exactly this, and investigated quite a bit.

If I were made of gold, I would do it. But I am not, and I won't.

A set up which matched my needs/wishes/expectations is around £25K.

So I have opted for a change, from green to red. Mostly on grounds of (perceived) simplicity

I will be reporting back. Wish me luck.

 

[Bobc]

I have bitten the bullet... but considered exactly this, and investigated quite a bit.

If I were made of gold, I would do it. But I am not, and I won't.

A set up which matched my needs/wishes/expectations is around £25K.

So I have opted for a change, from green to red. Mostly on grounds of (perceived) simplicity

I will be reporting back. Wish me luck.

I moved from green to red a couple of years ago and think the red ones are much better units.

 

[ean_p]

Daft idea, but might it be time to look at electric power, Uma style?

I've no idea how the costs stack up or whether it would suit your type of sailing, but I'd certainly give it some thought

This may be a thread drift but with the inevitable slowly coming over the horizon then what are the 'eco' friendly alternatives to a diesel engine in a cruising boat? Lets say 12mtrs, 10 tons displacement and an endurance of say 24 hours under power (would any less be safe?).........

 

[Bobc]

This may be a thread drift but with the inevitable slowly coming over the horizon then what are the 'eco' friendly alternatives to a diesel engine in a cruising boat? Lets say 12mtrs, 10 tons displacement and an endurance of say 24 hours under power (would any less be safe?).........

Hydrogen

 

[ean_p]

Hydrogen

as in bomb....?

 

[TiggerToo]

This may be a thread drift but with the inevitable slowly coming over the horizon then what are the 'eco' friendly alternatives to a diesel engine in a cruising boat? Lets say 12mtrs, 10 tons displacement and an endurance of say 24 hours under power (would any less be safe?).........

I have been thinking long and hard about this (as per comment above, re electric power). In the end, sailing is the ultimate eco-friendly travelling propulsion. I have already been using a wind gen, and this summer we added a portable solar panel. The outboard is now E, and has been replenished with the latter two.

The engine (diesel) is an auxillary, and I will keep it for the next twenty or so years (hopefully). I hope to use it little. But it's there when really needed.

I have been told that in parts of the Med (Italy) there are places where combustion-engine powered boats are excluded. I doubt I will be cruising with Tigger in the med, for the time being.

 

[TiggerToo]

I moved from green to red a couple of years ago and think the red ones are much better units.

I've put "love", because there is no fingers crossed response... but that would have suited too... let's see.

 

[Chuncky]

Folks, thanks very much for all of the responses, much food for thought.

TiggerToo pointed out (via PM) that Beta do a package that directly replaces the VP and saildrive. I'm going to speak to them.

We've been very lucky with the reliability of the MD2030, so I'd have no issues going for another VP. We're out of the water at the moment and I don't want to miss a day's sailing next season, so an unplanned major change to electric or hydrogen is probably too much to contemplate right now.

I'l report back.

 

[Slowtack]

Sample thread......
Volvo Penta MDI (Black Box) failures - Cruisers & Sailing Forums (cruisersforum.com)
Some other issues maybe mixed in there but a simple google search will identify the extent of these MDI failures

 

[Chuncky]

Slowtrack - thanks for that link. Pretty scary stories of MDI failures there. I did read that some of the issues may be mitigated by relocating the MDI off of the engine. That wouldn't, however explain some of the many MDI failures detailed in the link.

My local Beta dealer is pulling together a quote as we speak.

 

[SailingEd]

This may be a thread drift but with the inevitable slowly coming over the horizon then what are the 'eco' friendly alternatives to a diesel engine in a cruising boat? Lets say 12mtrs, 10 tons displacement and an endurance of say 24 hours under power (would any less be safe?).........

its no less safe its just a different way of using your boat....

i have an electric car, have done so for nearly 10 years, knowing what i know even the latest battery technology isnt quite there for use on the sea and for those 12 hour passages under motor without wind and against the tide would be impossible, the battery size required is almost impractical.
and there certainly isnt anywhere to rapid charge your boat in 20minutes while at sea, unlike the services on the M1!

a very expensive EV will get you a 300mile (on land) range (if you average 30-40mph), that translates into about 10hours running at its most economical, translated into the nautical world you'd be talking 5 knots for 10 hours, maybe even 11 hours due to less load perhaps....55nm for a 75kw battery! im sure you could double that if you slowed down to 2.5knots, but with most tides running up to 2 knots in places you wouldn't actually go anywhere for 12hours a day!

Oceanvolt back up this fag packet math with a 33kw battery option claiming a 25-75nm range, the 75nm range being achieved at 2 knots, the 25 at a more sensible speed of 5knots... and that's circa £25-30k for motor +battery, so financially you have to be flushed with cash to go that route. (and also remember my car came with a 350 mile WTLP figure I never achieved in 10 years!)

popping in and out of marinas at weekends i guess they're fine, as you can trickle charge them throughout the week on either solar or a 3pin shore power, but as a liveaboard, unless your happy to drift about until the wind fills in, they are only really useful for getting you in and out of places and not for passage making, you'd really have to change how you use a sailboat and literally sail everywhere, and drift when there isn't wind.

but that said, the diesel auxiliary engine is much more than propulsion, it generates electricity and heats the water, so has multiple purposes while running, the sailing boat is already a hybrid of sorts, with most of us wanting to sail the majority of the time anyway.

my life on land over the past 10 years in an electric car has saved me (and the planet i guess) of 3,635 gallons of diesel, or 16,529 liters, by comparison over the past 10 years I've put circa 800 liters in my boat and I've done some serious mileage at sea in that time too! so while its great if you can afford it and make it work, it certainly is low on the list of low hanging fruit for climate change.

also just on recharging, at home i had 7kw of solar and with heavy use that couldn't keep up with the car especially during winter, however inversely, my investments into Solar and an electric car for the past 10 years have paid for the new boat! (afterall the sun paid for the majority of my mileage and 16,529 Litres of diesel plus a company car mileage allowance at 45p (first 10k annually) / 10p respectively is serious boat money!) anyway i digress, but that said 7kw is not possible on boats, id be surprised if anyone had much more than 1kw in useable permanent panels.

but the point is, if your driving a combustion car and contemplating electrifying your boat... i think your looking in the wrong place

 

[ean_p]

its no less safe its just a different way of using your boat....

i have an electric car, have done so for nearly 10 years, knowing what i know even the latest battery technology isnt quite there for use on the sea and for those 12 hour passages under motor without wind and against the tide would be impossible, the battery size required is almost impractical.
and there certainly isnt anywhere to rapid charge your boat in 20minutes while at sea, unlike the services on the M1!

a very expensive EV will get you a 300mile (on land) range (if you average 30-40mph), that translates into about 10hours running at its most economical, translated into the nautical world you'd be talking 5 knots for 10 hours, maybe even 11 hours due to less load perhaps....55nm for a 75kw battery! im sure you could double that if you slowed down to 2.5knots, but with most tides running up to 2 knots in places you wouldn't actually go anywhere for 12hours a day!

Oceanvolt back up this fag packet math with a 33kw battery option claiming a 25-75nm range, the 75nm range being achieved at 2 knots, the 25 at a more sensible speed of 5knots... and that's circa £25-30k for motor +battery, so financially you have to be flushed with cash to go that route. (and also remember my car came with a 350 mile WTLP figure I never achieved in 10 years!)

popping in and out of marinas at weekends i guess they're fine, as you can trickle charge them throughout the week on either solar or a 3pin shore power, but as a liveaboard, unless your happy to drift about until the wind fills in, they are only really useful for getting you in and out of places and not for passage making, you'd really have to change how you use a sailboat and literally sail everywhere, and drift when there isn't wind.

but that said, the diesel auxiliary engine is much more than propulsion, it generates electricity and heats the water, so has multiple purposes while running, the sailing boat is already a hybrid of sorts, with most of us wanting to sail the majority of the time anyway.

my life on land over the past 10 years in an electric car has saved me (and the planet i guess) of 3,635 gallons of diesel, or 16,529 liters, by comparison over the past 10 years I've put circa 800 liters in my boat and I've done some serious mileage at sea in that time too! so while its great if you can afford it and make it work, it certainly is low on the list of low hanging fruit for climate change.

also just on recharging, at home i had 7kw of solar and with heavy use that couldn't keep up with the car especially during winter, however inversely, my investments into Solar and an electric car for the past 10 years have paid for the new boat! (afterall the sun paid for the majority of my mileage and 16,529 Litres of diesel plus a company car mileage allowance at 45p (first 10k annually) / 10p respectively is serious boat money!) anyway i digress, but that said 7kw is not possible on boats, id be surprised if anyone had much more than 1kw in useable permanent panels.

but the point is, if your driving a combustion car and contemplating electrifying your boat... i think your looking in the wrong place

I fully agree with all you say but that wont stop the inevitable.... it wont take much for a 'green' leaning authority to effectively ban / monetarize the use of an IC engine in a boat, whether day boat or cruiser. To my mind I think that the use/ fitting of IC engines will have to be justified and something like the European RCD coding will specify which vessel can have / use an IC . Example those coded Cat A or 'ocean' going can have fitted and use an ICE, the lessor categories will have to jump higher to justify it. And thats before we get involved in emission control etc etc etc.......