New dyneema mainsail halyard and maximum sail area

[bdh198]

We have recently purchased a new mainsail for our Hanse 370 and are looking at also replacing the halyard (which is currently 12mm polyester) with one that has a dyneema core to reduce the stretch in the rope and get as much performance out of the sails as possible. The boat is used for family cruising and is not raced so maximum performance is not required.

I have been looking at getting the thinner 10mm LIROS Dynamic Plus Dyneema (SK78) to have less friction in the rope and for easier storage. LIROS suggest this has a break load of at least 3100Kg. However, they recommend a maximum sail area of 30sqm. Our main is 42sqm.

LIROS also do the more expensive Regatta 2000 (also SK78) which has even less stretch and a break load of 5000Kg and they suggest that is suitable for a sail area up to 50sqm.

Comparing break loads to other manufacturers and the their suggested maximum sail area there seems to be some discrepancy. LIROS certainly seem to be more conservative with their suggested maximum.

My questions is whether the Dynamic Plus will likely be sufficient for our sail and cruising (with a young family we don’t do any racing or heavy weather sailing, and rarely put ourselves in the situation where a second or third reef is ever likely to be used), or should we really be stretching the budget for the more expensive Regatta 2000?

Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions.

 

[geem]

We have recently purchased a new mainsail for our Hanse 370 and are looking at also replacing the halyard (which is currently 12mm polyester) with one that has a dyneema core to reduce the stretch in the rope and get as much performance out of the sails as possible. The boat is used for family cruising and is not raced so maximum performance is not required.

I have been looking at getting the thinner 10mm LIROS Dynamic Plus Dyneema (SK78) to have less friction in the rope and for easier storage. LIROS suggest this has a break load of at least 3100Kg. However, they recommend a maximum sail area of 30sqm. Our main is 42sqm.

LIROS also do the more expensive Regatta 2000 (also SK78) which has even less stretch and a break load of 5000Kg and they suggest that is suitable for a sail area up to 50sqm.

Comparing break loads to other manufacturers and the their suggested maximum sail area there seems to be some discrepancy. LIROS certainly seem to be more conservative with their suggested maximum.

My questions is whether the Dynamic Plus will likely be sufficient for our sail and cruising (with a young family we don’t do any racing or heavy weather sailing, and rarely put ourselves in the situation where a second or third reef is ever likely to be used), or should we really be stretching the budget for the more expensive Regatta 2000?

Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions.

I have had cheap dyneema cored cruising rope snap. Our spinnaker halyard was such a crappy rope. We were lifting the dinghy on to the deck and the halyard snapped with a bang. All our dyneema halyards are now Marlow racing dyneema. The main halyard is 10mm on a 38m2 sail. It's done 37,000nm and is 11 years old. Well worth the extra expense. It's still in good condition. We always add an extra 3 metres to a halyard. Any damage in an end can be cut off

 

[Neeves]

We have had Dyneema halyards for over 30 years (for all except our spinnaker halyards - though this is of little importance as dyneema and cordage construction has improved in that time. We used to race, aggressively - but for the last 20 years we have led a more relaxed life - but still specified dyneema.

I find your opening post a little contradictory as you say you want to get as much performance out of your new sail and then say maximum performance is not required.

If you want maximum performance you will be focussed on halyard tension, use of Cunningham, outhaul etc - but I suspect this is not the case (with a young family). I think a focus on downsizing the halyard to reduce friction is an excellent idea but easier storage is all about being tidy, a 10mm rope will not be that much different to a 12mm rope if left in an untidy heap.

I also warn against the idea you will never use the second or third reef - forecast (as the name suggests) are forecasts - there is no certainty - and I'd suggest planning for the use of a 2nd or 3rd reef (and the third reef will be easier to manage if it is dyneema, less friction, easier to store (if you religiously coil working rigging).

Don't be discouraged by my negativity - I'd go the dyneema route, for the low fiction (alone) and take the easier handling as a bonus . I'd also look at downsizing the reefing lines (for the same reasons). If you choose the right rope maker the cordage will last longer then you will own the yacht - and that might be many years - so buy quality not on price.

I'd extend your search - for example look at Lancelin - they will give a different comparison to throw into the mix. We have been happy with Marlow.

Like Geem I have been crewing on a cat where the core (dyneema) slipped in a clutch, the outer polyester cover then failed and it took a crew of 4 to sort out the mess. Its not only the strength but the quality of cordage manufacture. Dyneema core slipping inside the cover is, or was, not unusual - but I can assure you - you don't want to see it (with a young family on board).

I cannot comment on cordage available in the UK - we have different choices in Oz. Let your thread run and garner as much hands on experience as you can - its not only strength and cost - but 'quality'.

The wear on the halyard will be at the head and at the clutch - it depends on the yacht but I'd be more generous than Geem with my 'extra' 5m rather than 3m.

Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I agree with Geem and Neeves, lets underline that quality almost always pays. The previous owner of our boat put some supposedly 10mm dyneema core line in our folding mechanism. It was way too fat for starters and caused endless problems, we replaced it with a Marlow 10mm D2 racing line. The old line became the jib sheets. For a few weeks that is, because the cover came off in fairly short order. The cover is now the washing line, it’s the circle of life. The core has been cut up and used all over the place, I’ve replaced the wire strop on about half the local fleet of XODs, stuff like that. Get decent rope! Personally I’d ignore the area recommendation. The strength/stretch will be fine at 10mm.

 

[Pete7]

Worth checking the clutches will grip 10mm new Dyneema if you are using 12mm polyester now.

 

[bdh198]

Thanks all for the helpful observations. It’s an interesting consideration about the dyneema core slipping in the outer cover. Is this still a problem with modem dyneema ropes, or was this more common with dyneema core 10-15 years ago and provided I go for a reputable brand it shouldn’t be something to be too concerned about?

 

[Daydream believer]

I will not go into the story. It is too long. But this Marlow 14mm dynema cored rope broke whilst placing a 2.5 tonnes mooring sinker. The break could have caused a serious accident, possibly death. We were so lucky.This section of rope was actually wound on a cleat & the core pulled out of the outer cover leaving the cover still on the cleat.
I have a Hanse 311
You say you will not use 2nd reef but a Hanse has a big mainsail & I always use my ST not the genoa. I find that for leisure sailing I reef fairly early & I use No 2 reef a lot. I do not furl the ST
I would buy the best Halyard. I have a Liros 8mm halyard because I dislike watching the sail crease as the halyard stretches in gusts. The extra cost in the grand scheme of things is minor

 

[Macka1706]

We have had Dyneema halyards for over 30 years (for all except our spinnaker halyards - though this is of little importance as dyneema and cordage construction has improved in that time. We used to race, aggressively - but for the last 20 years we have led a more relaxed life - but still specified dyneema.

I find your opening post a little contradictory as you say you want to get as much performance out of your new sail and then say maximum performance is not required.

If you want maximum performance you will be focussed on halyard tension, use of Cunningham, outhaul etc - but I suspect this is not the case (with a young family). I think a focus on downsizing the halyard to reduce friction is an excellent idea but easier storage is all about being tidy, a 10mm rope will not be that much different to a 12mm rope if left in an untidy heap.

I also warn against the idea you will never use the second or third reef - forecast (as the name suggests) are forecasts - there is no certainty - and I'd suggest planning for the use of a 2nd or 3rd reef (and the third reef will be easier to manage if it is dyneema, less friction, easier to store (if you religiously coil working rigging).

Don't be discouraged by my negativity - I'd go the dyneema route, for the low fiction (alone) and take the easier handling as a bonus . I'd also look at downsizing the reefing lines (for the same reasons). If you choose the right rope maker the cordage will last longer then you will own the yacht - and that might be many years - so buy quality not on price.

I'd extend your search - for example look at Lancelin - they will give a different comparison to throw into the mix. We have been happy with Marlow.

Like Geem I have been crewing on a cat where the core (dyneema) slipped in a clutch, the outer polyester cover then failed and it took a crew of 4 to sort out the mess. Its not only the strength but the quality of cordage manufacture. Dyneema core slipping inside the cover is, or was, not unusual - but I can assure you - you don't want to see it (with a young family on board).

I cannot comment on cordage available in the UK - we have different choices in Oz. Let your thread run and garner as much hands on experience as you can - its not only strength and cost - but 'quality'.

The wear on the halyard will be at the head and at the clutch - it depends on the yacht but I'd be more generous than Geem with my 'extra' 5m rather than 3m.

Jonathan

""
I cannot comment on cordage available in the UK - we have different choices in Oz. Let your thread run and garner as much hands on experience as you can - its not only strength and cost - but 'quality'.""



Marlow good. reliable and avail in Adel. Melb, and Q'Land. I did most of my sailing South af Adel. and Tassie for 30ish yrs. Then North permanently to C.Q. Spent 50th B,Day 7 days straight due South from North Haven Just me and dog. Beautiful.
9 1/2 days to tack back. Bloody wind swings. Grrreat sailing though. ALL Sailors should try it just once South Of Tassie.
I've always used Marlow double braid 12mm for sheets and Halyards on 32ft 8.5ton Cutter. Check every slip (12 to 15months)
Shrouds were S/S 8mm. 9 mm Fore and aft. syays.Heavy duty rig. Mainly in the '40's. Never on 40 yrs a problem. Just CHECK regularly.

 

[dunedin]

The Liros Dynamic Plus is good rope. I would stick to this rather than go full on all dyneema. But we have 12mm on our main halyard on a 38 footer.

 

[ashtead]

You might also want to look at 12mm Kingfisher as an alternative to Liros . I am told by riggers the standard Liros supplied to Hanse is slightly undersized if the original is still on there. Cost is around £375 plus VAT with splice maybe but clearly depends on length -say 41m maybe less for you though -We went for the kingfisher dynema 78 . It’s quite hard to coil compared to old standard stuff and you might also want a new shackle spliced in .