New cruising chute - advice on rigging?

[eddystone]

Last year, having read the YM comparison of different downwind sail set-ups from a few years back, I decided to look for a second hand cruising chute and ended up with a new one with squeezer with a decent discount from Crusader. Only thing is I have no experience of using these things (well maybe a couple of times 30 years ago). We do use a small symmetrical spinnaker in bags on the Flying Fifteen.

I was assuming I would lead the tack line through a block attached to the bow roller back to the cockpit so there would be some adjustment available there and then 2 sheets up to 2x the length of the boat so that I could gybe round the outside of the furled genoa. (that would mean the sail would end up "inside out" unlike a symmetrical spinnaker.) Someone at Crusader suggested just having one sheet and gybing by snuffing it and leading the sheet round the other side - what do you think? They also suggested using barber haulers to keep the sheet under control - we have these on the F15 spinnaker but I didn't know they were commonly used with assymetrics. At some stage I would like to be able to do this single handed if possible.

Also, what diameter ropes for tackline/sheets? (32' masthead sloop)

 

[PaulRainbow]

I have a North cruising chute. I run the tack line through a block on a small retractable bowsprit, then back to a cockpit winch, via some soft shackles with low friction rings, fixed to some stanchions. I only rig one sheet, as you describe. The sheet passes outside of everything to a cheek block bolted to the deck, as far aft as possible. From there is goes forwards to the genoa car and then to the sheet winch as normal. I can easily use the sail single handed on a 10m boat.

All lines are 10mm braid on braid.

 

[Pavalijo]

I will be rigging our Cruising chute for the first time this year.
I bought it secondhand. The chap I bought it from said that he struggled to get it to set properly and invited the sailmaker on board - who advised him to replace the tackline running from the cockpit with either a long length of dyneema or a shorter fixed length tackline attached to the bow fitting. The problem apparently was that in a slight gust the long tackline stretched and de powered the sail.
Does that sound likely?

I have no experience of flying one of these things and am just passing on that advice from the previous owner of my chute! I have, however, bought a length of 12mm dyneema to avoid the same issue.

 

[greeny]

I will be rigging our Cruising chute for the first time this year.
I bought it secondhand. The chap I bought it from said that he struggled to get it to set properly and invited the sailmaker on board - who advised him to replace the tackline running from the cockpit with either a long length of dyneema or a shorter fixed length tackline attached to the bow fitting. The problem apparently was that in a slight gust the long tackline stretched and de powered the sail.
Does that sound likely?

I have no experience of flying one of these things and am just passing on that advice from the previous owner of my chute! I have, however, bought a length of 12mm dyneema to avoid the same issue.

I rig mine with tackline back to cockpit and two sheets. Tackline is ordinary braid on braid at the moment but have used all sorts in the past. Even a length of old climbing rope with lots of stretch. Can't imagine dyneema would make any difference to me except in my pocket. Gybe by snuffing first then "un-snuffing" on new tack. Never seems to affect the set in a way that bothers me whatever string I use although more discerning sailors may disagree. It works for me and I don't get wraps. Single handed mostly so I stick to the tried and tested to make it simple with minimum risk.

 

[Ningaloo]

My assymetric is approx 90m2 and I can just about manage it single handed with apparent winds to 12-15kts, but I wouldn't be able to do this without the snuffer.
I have two sheets rigged but often only attach one to the clew as I gybe (infrequently) by snuffing and pushing the tube around the forestay.
You do need to take care that the lines for the snuffer don't get wrapped around the body of the sail when you hoist. Never had any issues dropping the snuffer.
I recommend the thinnest sheet lines that you can handle. Mine are 12mm but I'd prefer 10mm or even 8mm dyneema.
My tack is adjusted by swapping my (self-taking) jib sheet onto a short strop attached to the tack and run through a block on the bow.
With only one winch on each side, I need to use Spinlock (BRS) jamming blocks attached to padeyes on the aft rail.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I will be rigging our Cruising chute for the first time this year.
I bought it secondhand. The chap I bought it from said that he struggled to get it to set properly and invited the sailmaker on board - who advised him to replace the tackline running from the cockpit with either a long length of dyneema or a shorter fixed length tackline attached to the bow fitting. The problem apparently was that in a slight gust the long tackline stretched and de powered the sail.
Does that sound likely?

I have no experience of flying one of these things and am just passing on that advice from the previous owner of my chute! I have, however, bought a length of 12mm dyneema to avoid the same issue.

No, that's nonsense. There is no way a boat length of braid on braid can stretch enough to de-power the chute.

 

[dom]

I will be rigging our Cruising chute for the first time this year.
I bought it secondhand. The chap I bought it from said that he struggled to get it to set properly and invited the sailmaker on board - who advised him to replace the tackline running from the cockpit with either a long length of dyneema or a shorter fixed length tackline attached to the bow fitting. The problem apparently was that in a slight gust the long tackline stretched and de powered the sail.
Does that sound likely?

I have no experience of flying one of these things and am just passing on that advice from the previous owner of my chute! I have, however, bought a length of 12mm dyneema to avoid the same issue.

The sailmaker is basically right, though poss coming from a racing angle. If the tackline stretches either during a gust or from the inertial force after going over a wave, it will allow the luff to move around to windward thereby changing the angle of attack on the asymmetric. It may now start to curl up, forcing the trimmer to tighten or the helm to bear off, accelerate and then have to come up again. A right royal PITA at best!

Basically with an assy up the last thing you want is a spongy helm as the whole shebang bounces around under random inertial and recoil loads. The boat will be easier and much more fun to steer if one feels the nice crisp loads from the wind and waves. Dyneema tacklines (if long) and halyards are definitely to be recommended.

That said, if only using in light weather as you get used to it I wouldn't worry too much.

BTW you'll love whizzing silently along on a deep reach in lightish winds as opposed to listening to the donk whirring away!

 

[Iain C]

I'm very used to sailing with an asymm as I've raced high performance boats such as the 49er and 18' skiff for years, and have had a chute on both my old Sabre 27 (Kemp) and my current Bav32 (North). Some of my thoughts:

-If you can rig up a short bowsprit, it's worth doing. It keeps everything clear of the pulpit, and gives the chute more room between the genoa and itself to inside gybe through. In each case I built one out of carbon, here's the Sabre and the Bav respectiveley:

-For short handed work, the snuffer is invaluable. I was out with a complete newbie recently, who did have a real talent, and was steering with the chute up no problems, initially in a zephyr of 5kts, but by the time we took it down, it was over 20kts true and very busy with other traffic. Getting rid of the kite was very easy...as soon as the snuffer has come down even 1/3 of the way, the power is gone and it's all very manageable. I'll happily single hand with it too.

-I personally think the "only need one sheet" idea is a bit inconsiderate and dangerous. Sometimes you might NEED to gybe in a hurry, to avoid another boat, a hazard etc. Being in the position when you can't do that because you were too lazy to rig another sheet, or can't gybe the kite, probably means you shouldn't be using it in the first place.

-Besides, a boat with a chute won't run DDW like your F15. As such, you'll be gybing downwind, sailing the angles, and who wants to faff around re-rigging the sheet every time?

-I would say that snuffing then gybing when short handed isn't a bad idea, there's very little to go wrong, although it is a bit of a faff. But certainly a good way of making sure nothing will get tangled.

-You can rig for an inside gybe, where the clew goes between the kite and the forestay. I always sailed the Sabre like that (same as the 49er etc) and never had any issues. Conversely, I now tend to rig the Bav for an outside gybe, where essentially you let the clew stream downwind, in front of everything, and then pull it round onto the new gybe. Again, there is less to go wrong, and it is easier single handed. Plus, I once witnessed an identical Bav32 to mine ripping it's kite on the radar during an inside gybe. However, with an outside gybe, you may wish to get a "gybulator" added to stop the lazy sheet going under the boat. I really want to get this done to my kite.

-Tape everything. You don't want to rip your nice new kite.

-I'd also call BS on your stretchy tack line unless the line had totally failed or it was seriously crap line. IMHO you don't need dyneema here unless you're pushing things hard in something pretty racy.

-I'd also highly recommend making soft shackles to attach the kite sheets to the kite. Far better than knots and you really don't want lumps of stainless flapping around.

Good luck...nothing better than a decent 3 sail reach!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155789452942411

 

[RupertW]

Absolute fan of the "one sheet only" approach. It makes gybing super simple - walk up to the bow, snuff, pull the sheet up to you, chuck it back down the other side to be put round a block by the person in the cockpit and unsnuff as they haul in. Assuming you have autohelm that's just two people and a quick job and no chance of a snarl up. Just two more steps if you are singlehanded.

When Crusader sold me the sail they said that most people bought their chute, or asymm, used it once and then left it in a locker til they sold the boat. Basically the lines can easily get tangled up between snuffer, tackline and sheet and the sheer force and noise of the sail filling is very alarming to many cruisers. So they suggested that we wait for a calm day with a steady breeze and lots of sea room and when that happens to hoist, unsnuff, gybe, snuff, pack, hoist again and again until it became a trivial task. Then we'd use it and keep using it whenever the conditions were right.

Great advice for us.

 

[lw395]

We use a single sheet sometimes, typically on a long coastal trip. In very light airs, we use a thin tapered sheet to avoid the weight on the clew. It's best to have a nice fat sheet ready in case the breeze pipes up.

Around the Solent, I'd agree you generally need to be able to gybe at short notice, so rigging two sheets should be the norm, unless you're very slick at snuffing, and happy to snuff every time another boat looks like it might possibly get close.

The stretchy tack rope thing, well my old dinghy had a bowsprit that curved up in gusts, raising the tack about a foot. That did no harm, and can be argued to be a good thing. But sometimes flex in the system can make the kite unstable or harder to read. That can also be down to the halyard stretching too much.

Give yourself plenty of sea-room and learn to bear away in gusts, and as the boat accelerates down waves.

 

[Iain C]

I really cannot see how running up and down the side decks, re-running the sheet every time you gybe and making sure it's the right side of the forestay, genoa sheets, shrouds, guardrails etc is ever going to be easier than rigging two sheets just once, and that being all you need to do up until the point you put the kite back in the locker...but hey!

Also, in light breeze, singlehanded, where there's absolutely no need to snuff the kite, why would you even want to leave the cockpit?

 

[RupertW]

I really cannot see how running up and down the side decks, re-running the sheet every time you gybe and making sure it's the right side of the forestay, genoa sheets, shrouds, guardrails etc is ever going to be easier than rigging two sheets just once, and that being all you need to do up until the point you put the kite back in the locker...but hey!

Also, in light breeze, singlehanded, where there's absolutely no need to snuff the kite, why would you even want to leave the cockpit?

Gybing can go wrong, snuffing won't.

 

[dom]

Gybing can go wrong, snuffing won't.

Out of interest, so you're whizzing along and need to gybe to avoid a vessel, obstruction, kayaker, or whatever.

How long to snuff if bearing down to a point necessary to blank the assy is not an option?

Must admit it sounds very exposed to me unless way offshore :ambivalence:

 

[doug748]

"I was assuming I would lead the tack line through a block attached to the bow roller back to the cockpit so there would be some adjustment available there .."
eddystone.


I use this method with a spinnaker pole downhaul led forward and under the anchor roller. Similar sort of boat but it depends if you can clear the pulpit or not. You need to use a shackle that can be tripped under load.

Not a fan of snuffers, so just hoist from a sidedeck bag behind the main.

Using the bow like this, you tend to have too little room for gybing inside. Tho it is possible in light airs.
Gybing outside can lead to sailing over the long sheets when singlehanded. I now generally rig one sheet. This is mostly ok for offshore, not for round the cans.

To bring the sail down, I go onto a bit of a run, trip the tack and haul the sail in under the boom into the cabin.

I have some light sheets which are probably 6mm and some heavy ones which are easy to handle c12mm.

When the indicated wind speed starts to approach 15kts I take the sail down, in theory.

 

[Iain C]

Gybing can go wrong, snuffing won't.

Of course. It's physically impossible to accidentally drop the snuffing line out of reach over the side, or for the wind to get it and take it above your head, or for the line running up to the block to snag, or for the downhaul line to break, or for the mouth to come off the sock. Snuffing can't go wrong.

 

[lw395]

Out of interest, so you're whizzing along and need to gybe to avoid a vessel, obstruction, kayaker, or whatever.

How long to snuff if bearing down to a point necessary to blank the assy is not an option?

Must admit it sounds very exposed to me unless way offshore :ambivalence:

We mostly use the chute 'way offshore'. Not many kayakers or obstructions 10 miles out.
I'm not a great fan of setting chutes when you're short-staffed and surrounded by other, unpredictable boats.
Given a couple of crew, we can gybe or hand the kite in a few seconds.
I particularly enjoy using the kite instead of the engine for very light wind passages, so avoiding the weight of a second sheet has its place.
If you've got a decent kite and know how to use it, there's normally plenty of freedom in the course you can steer without gybing to keep clear of one or two other boats in open water, but I see no pleasure in trying to play that game on a busy day in Southampton Water.

When putting a kite up for the first time, be sure to have time and space to think in a leisurely fashion and take it down again. Things can get tangled, be sure you're able to calmly sort minor cockups before it gets stressful.
First time out, an extra pair of hands or two is a real bonus, if only to let you move around the boat and see everything from different angles.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Of course. It's physically impossible to accidentally drop the snuffing line out of reach over the side, or for the wind to get it and take it above your head, or for the line running up to the block to snag, or for the downhaul line to break, or for the mouth to come off the sock. Snuffing can't go wrong.

I once had the sock line twisted around the sail inside the sock, not possible to snuff. Easy enough to get around though, i just dropped the halyard, same as i'd do in the unlikely event of any of those other things that you mention happening.

Also, i sail on the East Coast, few worries here regarding emergency gybes

 

[RupertW]

Of course. It's physically impossible to accidentally drop the snuffing line out of reach over the side, or for the wind to get it and take it above your head, or for the line running up to the block to snag, or for the downhaul line to break, or for the mouth to come off the sock. Snuffing can't go wrong.

As the snuffing line is on a snatch block at the bottom of the mast then by and large those things can't happen. Unsnuffing the first time can be a hassle if the lines aren't led right but once up the sail can come up and down quickly and easily compared to gybing which is the whole aim. The only question that matters to me is "Why don't we use the engine, it's easier", so any fuss, any frantic action, any shouting means I don't get to use the sail again that season, so simplicity, reliability and control wins every time.

 

[RupertW]

Out of interest, so you're whizzing along and need to gybe to avoid a vessel, obstruction, kayaker, or whatever.

How long to snuff if bearing down to a point necessary to blank the assy is not an option?

Must admit it sounds very exposed to me unless way offshore :ambivalence:

Bearing down to a point - are you actually suggesting keeping the main up when the asym is going - sounds complicated.

Seriously though, we do only use it with plenty of room and no chance of needing a course change in the next 30 mins at least for any fixed obstacle. As we have perhaps 60 degrees of manouverability on that gybe then that will take us out of the way of any other sailing boat, round any little fishing boats adrift or at anchor, and any fast motor boats will run us down or get out of our way just like when sailing normally.

 

[Ningaloo]

Agree that I wouldn't try flying solo on a busy Solent weekend, but last year one of my best sails was a dawn departure from Weymouth, rounding Portland at sunrise and flying the assymetric all the way across Lyme Bay to Torquay. Wind picked up above 15kts apparent, so close to 20kts true, but I held on knowing the forecast was for lighter winds by noon. Right on time, the wind dropped and I was accompanied into Torquay by a pod of 20+ dolphins.