New boat purchase

[peterbotto]

I am buying a new 43ft sailing yacht from a well known distributor of a volume french manufacturer. The boat was at SBS and is in stock. I have paid 10% deposit, agreed a delivery date and now need to pay the balance before commissioning less a 5k holdback.
They are going to invoice me before I transfer the balance and will then give me a copy of the Bill Of Sale holding the original until handover and payment of the 5k balance.
I am obviously conecrned that I gain full title when my payment is cleared. Will this be OK or should I appoint a Marine Solicitor to handle the transaction ( any recommendations) before parting with my life savings!?

 

[davidwf]

I'd be reasonably ok with that and its what I have done on my boats. However what I did do is specifically refer to the HIN with every payment and insist that the receipts include the HIN that way if all goes wrong you have proof that you have paid for a particular boat.

Its worse when they make you pay a load over to release the boat from the factory though. Buying a stock boat is so much less stressful.

 

[Heckler]

I am buying a new 43ft sailing yacht from a well known distributor of a volume french manufacturer. The boat was at SBS and is in stock. I have paid 10% deposit, agreed a delivery date and now need to pay the balance before commissioning less a 5k holdback.
They are going to invoice me before I transfer the balance and will then give me a copy of the Bill Of Sale holding the original until handover and payment of the 5k balance.
I am obviously conecrned that I gain full title when my payment is cleared. Will this be OK or should I appoint a Marine Solicitor to handle the transaction ( any recommendations) before parting with my life savings!?

I would hire me a solicitor with a proper escrow account, IMHO brokers have got away with murder in the past! Just because they have done it that way for years doesnt mean they are right!
Would you buy a house like this? A big NO I suspect is the answer.
Stu

 

[Twister_Ken]

Ask the dealer what it would cost to arrange a bank guarantee (the dealer's bank guarantees to repay you if the dealer goes titzup). I did this buying my new boat, and for a relatively small amount it was seriously good peace of mind. If the bank wants a lot to guarantee the payment, odds-on the dealer's in trouble.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Make absolutely sure that you insurance starts at the instant the boat becomes yours. The agents importing a brand new glider for my former club rolled it on the motorway and then had the nerve to demand a substantial sum for repairs. If our treasurer had not had the foresight to insure it from the factory gate - in Germany - things could have been very awkward.

 

[jonjo]

I am obviously conecrned that I gain full title when my payment is cleared. Will this be OK

Tread very carefully. Beneath the sales glamour and posh accents yacht import agents are small businesses with probably less financial substance than a regional conservatory erector in Solihull. The size of the French manufacturer is of little relevance once a company insolvency expert takes control in the UK.

I suspect we are heading into another prime yacht agent collapse period. The economy is faltering again, struggling agents will have spent on their SIBS presence and now the bills will be rolling in.

Finally don't trust a client monies account. These only work when not needed, once the boss is robbing peter to paul the financial discipline to operate a client money account properly can break down.

 

[Tranona]

Forget all the nonsense talked about brokers and client accounts. None of this applies in your transaction as you have described it.

The dealer is trading on his own account ie he owns the boat and is selling it to you with clear title. It may however, be financed by a bank that has a charge over the specific boat so you need to be sure that the dealer clears that. They are misleading you over the status of the £5k. You are witholding this pending their full completion of the contract inluding commissioning. They have no right to withold the Bill of Sale. That is yours giving you the title as soon as you have paid for the boat. They get the £5k when they have commissioned the boat to your satisfaction.

You may find you have already signed a contract based on those terms but if you have not, then re-negotiate terms which give you full title when you have paid for the boat.

 

[Sailfree]

They get the £5k when they have commissioned the boat to your satisfaction.

The agent make as much, if not more, on fitting the extras especially if he arrangs Bob the builder to do it.

Having bought 3 new boats the quality of the UK marine industry on initial fit outs is worse than my experience with cowboy builders.

Only by retaining money until I was completely satisfied resulted in the work being completed to any reasonable standard. The leaking bowthruster was only finally cured by insisting that a quality firm carried out the work on its 2nd annual lift out - yes 2 years later and a rusty bowthruster!!

I would now only buy a basic boat and manage the fitting out of radar , heating etc myself using competitive tenders but only from competent firms.

 

[Elessar]

The agent make as much, if not more, on fitting the extras especially if he arrangs Bob the builder to do it.

Having bought 3 new boats the quality of the UK marine industry on initial fit outs is worse than my experience with cowboy builders.

Only by retaining money until I was completely satisfied resulted in the work being completed to any reasonable standard. The leaking bowthruster was only finally cured by insisting that a quality firm carried out the work on its 2nd annual lift out - yes 2 years later and a rusty bowthruster!!

I would now only buy a basic boat and manage the fitting out of radar , heating etc myself using competitive tenders but only from competent firms.

name and shame. Not fair to brand every agent in the same way.

We antifoul (or coppercoat) and fit bowthrusters as well as any other miscellaneous GRP work to 3 brands of new boat. We work alongside the guys that fit the electronics, heaters and covers. Sometimes boats are reupholstered, tables upgraded or teak decks laid. The work is all done with the skill and care a brand new boat deserves. The agents would be down on us like a ton of bricks if it was any other way.

When you buy a boat with the extras fitted, the agent is selling you the whole package and thus has a responsibility for aftersales. He doesn't get the mark up for nothing.

Having said that there is a brand of sailing yacht that clearly used cut price antifoul services for a while, as the boats were not sanded. I have had a coppercoated one of them in the yard that wasn't prepped properly either which is a shame.

________________

ARC. Antifoul Removal, Epoxy Coatings, CopperCoat

Noisekiller Marine. Automotive acoustic technology now available for your boat

Sail for Fun. Yacht and Motorboat charter

 

[Tranona]

The agent make as much, if not more, on fitting the extras especially if he arrangs Bob the builder to do it.

Having bought 3 new boats the quality of the UK marine industry on initial fit outs is worse than my experience with cowboy builders.

Only by retaining money until I was completely satisfied resulted in the work being completed to any reasonable standard. The leaking bowthruster was only finally cured by insisting that a quality firm carried out the work on its 2nd annual lift out - yes 2 years later and a rusty bowthruster!!

I would now only buy a basic boat and manage the fitting out of radar , heating etc myself using competitive tenders but only from competent firms.

In principle I agree with your sentiments - although I suspect that some of the horrors from the boom period are a thing of the past.

It is perfectly reasonable to withold part of the payment until the boat is complete according to the contract. The issue is with title and my view is that the payment less the final £5k is sufficient to transfer full title. After all if a boat was built to order using the standard contract ownership would pass in line with stage payments.

It is unreasonable for the dealer to retain the Bill of Sale. After all if he does the job properly he will get paid or use one of the legal remedies to recover his money. If he fails to satisfy the customer then he probably has not met the terms of the contract anyway.

If the buyer is using finance then the finance company is unlikely permit this kind of arrangement as it would expect to be able to register a charge over the boat.

 

[peterbotto]

Update

Many thanks for all the advice from other Forum Members. I am happy to report that the whole payment transaction and transfer of ownership went seamlessly.
The Beneteau Dealer- Ancasta fully understood my concerns and once payment was received they removed the boat from their stocking plan immediately. This all took place yesterday and this morning I collected my title docs etc.
This is the third boat I have purchased through Ancasta although the others were on brokerage.
I'm now looking forward to the handover and will report further but on current performance they are to be commended as an excellent company to deal with.