New Boat Batteries

[Sailfree]

I have a Jeanneau 43 with the optional extra battery. On examination I have 4 No 110Ah batteries as original equipment. Now I thought the engine battery was a start battery and the other 3 are boat batteries and meant to be deep traction but all 4 are identical!

On way back from Cherbourg after 8hrs sailing chatplotter started to blink and discover boat battery was down to 9V but engine battery was still 13V. All batteries are now in their 8th season so I guess one has some failed cells.

Probably best to replace all 4 but do I try to identify the boat batteries and get traction/deep cycle replacements. Wiring is confusing as its a charter boat and has to be fitted with an extra shunt that can connect all the batteries for an emergency start.

Does anyone know the type of batteries Jeanneau originally fit ie Deep Cycle or ordinary engine batteries. No complaints as lasted 8yrs but just want to get the right ones at best price.

 

[sailorman]

8 yrs old just change them
http://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/XV31/

 

[Tranona]

Consider changing them so that you have a smaller dedicated start battery, although you may be limited if you run the windlass off the start battery. Consider also replacing the split charging diode (which I think it will have) with a VSR and your isolator switches with something like the BEP Marine switch cluster which isolates each bank separately but has a parallel switch that meets the coding requirement.

 

[Sailfree]

8 yrs old just change them
http://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/XV31/

Yes but what with - they are all identical. See my original post

 

[Sailfree]

Consider changing them so that you have a smaller dedicated start battery, although you may be limited if you run the windlass off the start battery. Consider also replacing the split charging diode (which I think it will have) with a VSR and your isolator switches with something like the BEP Marine switch cluster which isolates each bank separately but has a parallel switch that meets the coding requirement.

Sorry but why change anything other than the batteries. The charging circuit and split diode as originally fitted must be working fine if batteries have lasted 8 seasons. Not sure what windlass runs off! Looking at batteries there is a rats nest of wires (battery cables) but easy enough to just replace cables as existing to any new batteries.

Its that all 4 batteries are identical thats thrown me! If engine battery is a deep cycle then its doing well as that retains 13V.

 

[Plevier]

Does anyone know the type of batteries Jeanneau originally fit ie Deep Cycle or ordinary engine batteries. No complaints as lasted 8yrs but just want to get the right ones at best price.

The 2 house batteries in my 2003 Jeanneau appear to be ordinary Tudor car batteries. Originally I think they were split as starter and house but the first owner added a separate Optima engine battery and paralleled the two Tudors, which are identical. They are getting to replacement point.

My view is that on a charter boat where the batteries will be liable to abuse getting expensive deep cycle ones would be a waste of time. I would use truck or leisure from a decent manufacturer such as Varta, not the cheapest rubbish.

 

[Tranona]

Sorry but why change anything other than the batteries. The charging circuit and split diode as originally fitted must be working fine if batteries have lasted 8 seasons. Not sure what windlass runs off! Looking at batteries there is a rats nest of wires (battery cables) but easy enough to just replace cables as existing to any new batteries.

Its that all 4 batteries are identical thats thrown me! If engine battery is a deep cycle then its doing well as that retains 13V.

Couple of reasons if you are following the suggestion of going the now common route of a small dedicated starter battery. This will allow (if you want) a bigger house bank, but you need to ensure the split charging system is effective to ensure the start battery is always fully charged. A VSR is better than a diode as there is less voltage drop. The requirement to parallel for emergency start is neatly met by the switch cluster I suggested, which you can also get with a VSR.

 

[Marsupial]

what ever you do keep it simple, I changed all 4 of my tudors with 100AH NUMAX leisure lead calciums 18 months ago - the Tudors were 8 years old still going strong, but 8 years old.

The 110AH tudors were really 100AH (apparently), the NUMAX are dual deep cycle and cranking so if the starter bat has an early bath I can use one of the others.

The only modification I made was to up the voltage on the inhouse charger in line with lead calcium requirements (my charger wont autosense the battery type).

So far all is well we have no power issues.

When the splitter diode dies it will be replaced with a VSR - but so far it aint broke so I wont fix it.

 

[Richard10002]

I have a Jeanneau 43 with the optional extra battery. On examination I have 4 No 110Ah batteries as original equipment. Now I thought the engine battery was a start battery and the other 3 are boat batteries and meant to be deep traction but all 4 are identical!

You have almost certainly got 4 x "leisure" batteries, which are little more than normal car batteries.

Many sellers call leisure batteries "deep cycle", but they are very rarely true deep cycle.

If your 4 leisure batteries have lasted 8 years, get 4 more of the same Ah and size, and go for another 8 years. As has been said, why change anything if things have been OK for 8 years!!

True deep cycle batteries cost much more than ordinary leisure batteries, have very thick plates, and they wont quote a CCA, because the plates are too thick to provide a CCA.

 

[shaunksb]

Many sellers call leisure batteries "deep cycle", but they are very rarely true deep cycle.

.

My jeanneau had the extra battery but they were all plain leisure batteries.

In fact, the point is, they were not "sealed" batteries either.

The advice I gleaned off another thread was to use standard batteries and not sealed as they are capable of taking their charge faster without gassing issue's.


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[Plevier]

The only modification I made was to up the voltage on the inhouse charger in line with lead calcium requirements (my charger wont autosense the battery type).

I don't know if you have a Jeanneau with the same Crystec charger as mine (2003 model), if so be careful, the preset voltages in it on the calcium setting are much too high for any battery I know of, 14.6V float and 15.4V boost.

 

[Marsupial]

I don't know if you have a Jeanneau with the same Crystec charger as mine (2003 model), if so be careful, the preset voltages in it on the calcium setting are much too high for any battery I know of, 14.6V float and 15.4V boost.

I thought so too so I had a look round, here is just one source that suggests Crystec has it right for lead calcium.

http://www.bosch.co.za/content/language1/html/5154.

my charger does not have a preset, I need to set a pot with a voltmeter and screwdriver.

and another

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...tery-charging-and-variable-voltage-24792.html

with more links to other sources

I does appear that (as I have suspected for a long time) most of the time batteries are not fully charged - unless you are really on the ball - and mixing battery types in the same system is problematical - what float voltage shall we pick? Even with smart chargers, monitors solar and windmills I have seen many systems this year in the med where batteries are not getting beyond 80% charge, yes mine is probably among them. The accuracy of monitors and meters is I think partly to blame here, without a Lab reference device how do you know if your meter is accurate? I test mine with a new alkaline battery every once in a while but its very hit and miss.

 

[Plevier]

I thought so too so I had a look round, here is just one source that suggests Crystec has it right for lead calcium.

http://www.bosch.co.za/content/language1/html/5154.

my charger does not have a preset, I need to set a pot with a voltmeter and screwdriver.

That page is talking about vehicle alternator voltage setting which is a compromise to give adequate recharge with no boost charging and intermittent operation. Even allowing for that, I think their figure of 14.8V is unusually high.
Bosch don't make batteries. You'll note the South African website says "The range of calcium batteries manufactured for Bosch" - I've no idea who makes them for Bosch in South Africa or who set this figure.
In Europe Bosch is a Varta brand. For leisure batteries in marine use Varta say float 13.4V and boost 14.4V. For automotive batteries they say use external chargers at 14.4V with a 10% current limit; they don't give a setting for the vehicle alternator, but 14.2V is pretty much the norm these days. Those are lead:calcium batteries (some with silver also).
I would fully expect floating at Crystec's setting of 14.6V for any length of time to lead to water loss and accelerated corrosion.
The only type I can think of for which those settings would be in the right ball park are the small Cyclon cylindrical cells originated by Gates and now made by Hawker/Enersys, but they are very different from conventional lead acid batteries.

 

[Plevier]

I does appear that (as I have suspected for a long time) most of the time batteries are not fully charged - unless you are really on the ball - and mixing battery types in the same system is problematical - what float voltage shall we pick? Even with smart chargers, monitors solar and windmills I have seen many systems this year in the med where batteries are not getting beyond 80% charge, yes mine is probably among them. The accuracy of monitors and meters is I think partly to blame here, without a Lab reference device how do you know if your meter is accurate? I test mine with a new alkaline battery every once in a while but its very hit and miss.

Yes agree with that.
A lot of people have unrealistic expectations about recharge. You can get to around 85% quickly by boosting at higher voltages, maybe with a bit of water loss. At that point lots of monitors say "fully charged" and people believe it. What it really means is "I've reached the limit for fast charging."
Above that charge efficiency declines (tending to 0% at 100% state of charge) and you need quite prolonged application of a moderate voltage (say 13.8 or so) to get to near full charge. A high voltage won't do it appreciably quicker, it will just increase water loss and corrosion.
Most vehicle batteries with intermittent alternator charging tend to run around 85% charge or lower.

 

[Plevier]

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...tery-charging-and-variable-voltage-24792.html

with more links to other sources

Had a quick glance, lots of contradictions and inconsistencies there.
Open cct voltage of 13.2V after standing suggests an unusually high electrolyte specific gravity of around 1.350 probably in an attempt to increase energy density for electric vehicles at the expense of corrosion life, which wouldn't matter as you would wear it out on cycle life first. This would require a commensurately increased charge voltage.
(As a rule of thumb, O.C. voltage = (s.g. + 0.84) volts per cell at 20 deg C.
Minimum float voltage to maintain charge = O.C. vpc +0.1
Minimum voltage to slow recharge = O.C. vpc + 0.2 = 13.8V for a typical 12V battery with s.g. of 1.260)

 

[Sailfree]

Couple of reasons if you are following the suggestion of going the now common route of a small dedicated starter battery. This will allow (if you want) a bigger house bank, but you need to ensure the split charging system is effective to ensure the start battery is always fully charged. A VSR is better than a diode as there is less voltage drop. The requirement to parallel for emergency start is neatly met by the switch cluster I suggested, which you can also get with a VSR.

Boat original spec was one dedicated starter battery and 2 boat batteries. Extra battery for boat fitted adjacent to dedicated starter battery. End results 3 x110Ah for boat and 1x 110Ah for starting. Charging by a slit diode.

While each battery bank (starting and boat) can be independently isolated they can also be all connected for an emergency start if all a bit flat. This is required by Charter coding.

Perhaps my original post was not clear.

Batteries are Tudor IIRC and my surprise is that they are all identical so either all starter (car type) batteries or all deep cycle. Hence question of what have I got as OE and what should I replace them with?

 

[Sailfree]

My jeanneau had the extra battery but they were all plain leisure batteries.

In fact, the point is, they were not "sealed" batteries either.


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Sounds the same as mine

 

[Boo2]

Yes but what with - they are all identical. See my original post

If these will fit then try them. 750 CCA should be fine for starting your engine and 115Ah is what you already have so...

If the rest of your systems works OK and you are happy with it then why change anything else ?

Boo2

 

[sailorman]

If these will fit then try them. 750 CCA should be fine for starting your engine and 115Ah is what you already have so...

If the rest of your systems works OK and you are happy with it then why change anything else ?

Boo2

Snap #2

 

[Sailfree]

If these will fit then try them. 750 CCA should be fine for starting your engine and 115Ah is what you already have so...

If the rest of your systems works OK and you are happy with it then why change anything else ?

Boo2

Sounds good but should I measure max charge and float charge as these are calcium? If so just put meter over terminals and measure initial charge rate and later charge rate but what about alternator?

Need to check terminal position and width of recess and height availability. Current batteries 165w x330lg x210h. The recommended ones are 172w x 330lg x 242h.