New Big ferries - Lymington to Yarmouth - LOOK OUT!

The measurements sound very little different but the reality is they seem much bigger by far, even when parked up and especially so when seen next to the originals.

The incident I referred to in my earlier post with the old size ferry would have been disatrous with the new wider one for sure. Yes they generally handle them with care and consideration too but now the margin for error has just shrunk to nothing. Catamaran beams beware!
 
Ultimately, as a Southampton Water based sailor, my descision to head West will be dictated by tides and weather during the time available, but this is yet another reason to choose Yarmouth. I appreciate that the same ferries are going to Yarmouth as well but the nature of the entrance makes them far easier to avoid.

Personally, there has always been, as a friend of mine put it, 'something of the golf club' about Lymington and I love Yarmouth to bits. So if it is not going to be too busy, I'll choose Yarmouth anyway, all things being equal, but this is the sort of thing that will tip more and more people toward the Island side and make those walk ashore berths even harder to secure!
 
Catamaran beams beware!
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Well not really Robin as I can sail on wet grass so moving outside the piles is no problem unless on LW Springs. They won't get me! The greatest risk is deep keeled boats who have to keep to the middle, but in theory at least they should be OK if everyone sticks to the speed limit, assuming that you can go that fast!
 
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Well not really Robin as I can sail on wet grass so moving outside the piles is no problem unless on LW Springs. They won't get me! The greatest risk is deep keeled boats who have to keep to the middle, but in theory at least they should be OK if everyone sticks to the speed limit, assuming that you can go that fast!

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Yes our draught at 2.08m means we stay in the channel so hugging the edge to dodge a ferry is 'fun' and even more so in the first part where the cross tides are pushing us over as well! The bit where I wouldn't want cat beam though is up past Berthon so no wet grass for you there where the fery tried to kill us, just solid boats on the piles to hit which would be the preferred option to jousting with superferry!
 
"Will this make a difference in real terms? I don't think so."

How do you arrive at this, particularly when followed by :-

"Do the present ferries impact on the saltings in the approach? Probably. In fact the harbour might well silt up without them"

How does the ability to move enough silt to keep the river open, make no "difference in real terms" ? This is what the whole controversy is about - WL's new vessels attempts to creat a new canal from 'Jack in the Basket' to the Cadnam M27 roundabout!

May take a few years, but all the other 'Experts', seem to think (after much research/measurements) that the old ferries have already caused massive erosion, so a tad impetuous to state "I don't think so".
 
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...I agree with your sums re beam, length and draft, except that the shape of the hull underwater is more rectangular and hence 80% greater displacement of water...

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This is the significant factor. The LOA is always quoted but the LWL is significantly longer on the new ferries.

I think this is just the start of Wightlink tactics. They became bully boys at Fishbourne some years ago - but they do also have the benefit of being harbourmaster there.

They had always tried to claim sole use of the entrance channel to the extent that they planned to ban any other vessel entering leaving the harbour if a ferry was in the channel because they were "constrained by draft", until QHM intervened. Then suddenly they weren't constrained by draft any longer and to avoid having to wait for the outgoing ferry to clear the channel, they started sending the incoming ferry down outside of the channnel cutting inbetween the last 2 piles behind the departing ferry. So they were not content with just bearing down on small boats in the channel, they were doing it outside of the channel as well.

I think it is only a matter of time before they flex their muscles even more at Lymington to the detriment of all other river users - they even tried to force the Puffin ferry out of business a few years ago.
 
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Looking at the specs we have beam increased by 5.2% to 16 metres, OAL increased 6.8% to 62 metres and draught pretty well the same (well .02 metres more if we nit pick) Drive is still twin Voith Schnieder and design speed 11 knots.
Will this make a difference in real terms? I don't think so.

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I can assure those who haven't experienced them at close quarters that there is a significant difference between the old and new ferries. While they have been doing their recent 'trials' on the new boats I have passed close by them (including a very scary surprise squeeze similar to the one described above), and until last week had a mooring on the outermost line of trots just downstream of the Lymington ferry terminal. They kick up significantly more wash than the old ferries when accelerating or manouevring - a small boat like ours (23 foot) gets spun violently around, not just rocked a little as before.

Although their 'extreme' dimensions are only marginally larger than their predecessors, the amount of water displaced is much greater. They also have a much larger body above the water, and therefore their windage will be much greater, and it will take a lot more power to keep them in position. The power of the new vessels is very much greater than before.

Wightlink could have had widespread support for an upgrading of their fleet (yea, including an increase in size), but they've been just too greedy and arrogant for their own long-term good.

The whole thing has been a PR disaster. Wightlink have been castigated by (I think it was) the Advertising Standards Authority for publishing misleading adverts claiming the new ferries were only slightly bigger. The Lymington Harbourmaster was previously employed by Wightlink, and in that role was involved in the early stages of drawing up the specs for the replacement ferries, so it's hardly surprising that some of the locals are cynical about the Harbour Commissioners seeming to lie down in the face of Wightlink's bullying.

No doubt some of the claims against, or fears about, them are exaggerated, but that doesn't mean that all of them are unfounded.
 
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Catamaran beams beware!
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Well not really Robin as I can sail on wet grass so moving outside the piles is no problem unless on LW Springs. They won't get me! The greatest risk is deep keeled boats who have to keep to the middle, but in theory at least they should be OK if everyone sticks to the speed limit, assuming that you can go that fast!

[/ QUOTE ]I watched them passing in the river at 4pm today, which was low tide, and I can assure you there was no room for a pram dinghy either side let alone a catamaran !
 
Er... MoodyNick.... That would have been low water Springs then give a day or two.(Actually 3) Wanna read my post again? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
No special rights. As a vessel constrained by its draught though small boats not constrained by their draught should keep clear if they can. Many deep fin keeled boats are just as constrained as the ferries though, especially at LW springs or thereabouts when there is not much water outside the piles. The speed limit in the outer channel is 6 knots (from memory) reducing to 4 inside the tidal surge barrier. Assuming a small vessel can do 6 knots the ferry should not overtake anyway as they are subject to the same limit. If a slower vessel, constrained by her draught is in the channel ahead of the ferry you are correct she should slow down or keep clear overtaking. This does not help however when the boogers are coming the other way, especially in the narrows past Berthon, or passing one another in the approaches when it has always been wise to keep clear. If you can't keep clear though in theory you should be on the same side as the ferry, either in front or behind it so I agree with others that say the problem is up river past berthon especially if the booger decides to leave just as you are entering the narrows.
All this of course is theory. I can only say that when I have met them passing at LW Springs, and have pressed on at 5-6 knots they have always been very good and slowed to my speed. Not quite sure if they would be able to do so if I was sailing at less than 5-6 knots. I think the problem is that many small boats sail in the approaches rather than start engines (if they have one) The Lymington club also have racing dinghys that ply back and forth which are sometimes a problem for me let alone the ferries so I really think they should be obeying the rule to keep clear of vessels constrained by their draught racing or not.
Of course all this relies on the ferries always behaving as they should which is why HM has asked for reports of any infringements and intends (quite rightly) to police them closely.
 
Well I'm dissappointed that they are still being allowed to pass each other inside the river and not made to do the switch outside as the HM suggested (and was reported in the Poole Echo). The problem isn't so much the huge wall of steel that this presents as they pass but in the timing that this creates with the one that has just left the Lymington berth. The incoming one stops at the pass point, something they can do easily by virtue of their drive at each corner propulsion system. We on the other hand find it less easy to stand still when the tide is running and the wind is blowing but if you pass the stopped ferry you then meet the outgoing one inside the wavebreak area and between rows of boats on pile moorings on the west side and shallow swinging or fore/aft buoys the east side. When you passed the old ferries their egg whisk type drives would push you sideways and more so the slower you go and inside the breakwater is a 4kt zone, in practice we know better than to do that and open up the throttle until we are past to give us more forward movement than the ferry wash forced sideways move. The bigger new ferries with bigger propulsion units will I think make this much worse and especially so for smaller boats with less engine power or even no engine.

Personally I think large yachts sailing well into the river are not helpful and more than a bit inconsiderate, especially as they eventually turn head to wind to drop sails, usually across the channel. We always drop our main and furl the genoa when outside the entrance and the same when leaving and putting sail up, it isn't much of an inconvenience. However there are some racing boats kept alongside right up top at Berthon that sail in and out regularly and only on very rare occasions will they put a little 2hp outboard.
 
The new ferries look to be very nice, giving a much better class of travel to their many customers.


Perchance its the arrogant yachtie who's maybe being a bit NIMBYish?
 
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Stop trolling Jimi!

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I'm not, they were on the local news last night, and their passengers seemed very happy with the much cleaner more comfortable craft
 
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I'm not, they were on the local news last night, and their passengers seemed very happy with the much cleaner more comfortable craft


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I saw that too on the local news and it is nice to know that the passengers find it more comfortable, but that could also have been the case with a replacement ferry the same rather than a bigger (and they ARE bigger) size. From the other side would you rather that the passengers on the wide beam supercoach that just crunched your car in a narrow lane were finding it more comfy to ride in?

I don't understand the NIMBY bit, because the ferries are a fact of life and have always been there as long as I've been sailing. What is different is that the new ones are bigger and much more so than their dimensional comparison with the old ones suggests because the telling figure is not the LOA or Beam but the displacement which is 80% more. See one close up and you will see what I mean, we saw the first new one many times at the end of last season both berthed close to the old ones when the size difference really showed as well as when they did some trial runs in the river.
 
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