Never going home?

[Crisby]

There mix signals, read one gov and it say just that , another seen to say there no real time limit .
RGR is normally three years

Oh well, best not take the boat ‘back’ then just to be on the safe side.........

Chris

 

[sailaboutvic]

Oh well, best not take the boat ‘back’ then just to be on the safe side.........

Chris

Chris didn't you buy your in Greece? If so the option isn't open to you , has ( how HMRC like to say ) it wasn't exported by you , how the fu@k you can export to another EU country when you was an EU member at the time is beyond me.
We in the same boat.

 

[Crisby]

Chris didn't you buy your in Greece? If so the option isn't open to you , has ( how HMRC like to say ) it wasn't exported by you , how the fu@k you can export to another EU country when you was an EU member at the time is beyond me.
We in the same boat.

Yes, my wife asked me this afternoon about the logic of having to pay VAT again on a VAT paid boat, I think my attempt to explain it just confirmed her suspicion that I’m not very bright!!

Chris

 

[Graham376]

There mix signals, read one gov and it say just that , another seen to say there no real time limit .
RGR is normally three years

The government have allowed an extra year of grace so return this year can be added to the normal 3 years. Having said that, they also refer to the "exceptional circumstances" clause where time extensions have always? been allowed if all other requirements met. I've never met anyone who's been charged VAT on returning from extended cruise.

 

[webcraft]

If you are coming to Scotland it seems you have to go into a hotel not of your choosing at a cost of £1750, irrespective of which country you have come from.

Indeed. Which scuppers plan B, sailing to the Canaries, leaving the boat in Las Palmas and flying home from there.

Plan 'C' involves crewing on a yacht delivery . . . .

- W

 

[sailaboutvic]

The government have allowed an extra year of grace so return this year can be added to the normal 3 years. Having said that, they also refer to the "exceptional circumstances" clause where time extensions have always? been allowed if all other requirements met. I've never met anyone who's been charged VAT on returning from extended cruise.

Nor have I Graham but I guess that may change , we never been told to carry prove of vat payment or where the boat was in 2020 , if you read HMRC they now advising UK boat owners to do so .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Carry on from my last posting #26 , I wonder what problem someone who has his own mooring and does his own maintenance to prove where the boat was end of last year .

 

[Laser310]

I wonder if one could get to Portugal, and then claim some sort of asylum...

"my country will imprison me if I return!"

a route to EU citizenship?

 

[nortada]

I wonder if one could get to Portugal, and then claim some sort of asylum...

"my country will imprison me if I return!"

a route to EU citizenship?

You are welcome to join the rest of us in the funny (but rather nice) farm.

 

[Graham376]

Carry on from my last posting #26 , I wonder what problem someone who has his own mooring and does his own maintenance to prove where the boat was end of last year .

I already mentioned what I did, which was to have the Policia Maritima inspect, photograph and document it on the mooring on 31/12, Document and photos then passed to me.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, my wife asked me this afternoon about the logic of having to pay VAT again on a VAT paid boat, I think my attempt to explain it just confirmed her suspicion that I’m not very bright!!

Chris

It is very "simple". VAT is a tax on transactions, not on the asset that is the subject of the transaction. The test of whether it is payable depends on the rules that determine if it is a "Chargeable event". Importing an item into the EU is a chargeable event. while the UK was in the EU movement from one state to another was not as payment of VAT in any state allowed free circulation in all states. However since leaving the EU the UK is a third country so movement of boats from the EU to UK is now an import and therefore a chargeable event and VAT is paid on the value of the asset. It applies the other way as well in that a boat sold to the EU from the UK is subject to EU VAT.

There are however reliefs available which you can find in VAT Notice No8 of which Returned Goods Relief is the most common. however that applies to boats that have been taken out of the UK and come back under the same ownership which means that VAT is not paid a second time. However if the boat changes ownership outside the EU it is not eligible for RGR and the new owner will have to pay VAT. Equally now the UK is outside th EU your a boat purchased in the EU has to pay VAT if it is imported into the UK.

These rules have been in place for over 25 years, but have not been an issue for most because of free circulation within the EU. On the other hand it has been clear since 2016 (and in fact for some time before) that leaving the EU would lead to the current situation, with the only real thing being unclear is the application of the RGR rules as they are the rules that have the biggest impact on cruising sailors with boats originally bought, and VAT paid, in the UK.

 

[Crisby]

It is very "simple". VAT is a tax on transactions, not on the asset that is the subject of the transaction. The test of whether it is payable depends on the rules that determine if it is a "Chargeable event". Importing an item into the EU is a chargeable event. while the UK was in the EU movement from one state to another was not as payment of VAT in any state allowed free circulation in all states. However since leaving the EU the UK is a third country so movement of boats from the EU to UK is now an import and therefore a chargeable event and VAT is paid on the value of the asset. It applies the other way as well in that a boat sold to the EU from the UK is subject to EU VAT.

There are however reliefs available which you can find in VAT Notice No8 of which Returned Goods Relief is the most common. however that applies to boats that have been taken out of the UK and come back under the same ownership which means that VAT is not paid a second time. However if the boat changes ownership outside the EU it is not eligible for RGR and the new owner will have to pay VAT. Equally now the UK is outside th EU your a boat purchased in the EU has to pay VAT if it is imported into the UK.

These rules have been in place for over 25 years, but have not been an issue for most because of free circulation within the EU. On the other hand it has been clear since 2016 (and in fact for some time before) that leaving the EU would lead to the current situation, with the only real thing being unclear is the application of the RGR rules as they are the rules that have the biggest impact on cruising sailors with boats originally bought, and VAT paid, in the UK.

Thanks Tranona, thats what I tried to say but it didn’t come out quite the same, I’m sure she will appreciate the clarity!

Chris

 

[Graham376]

Interesting point in updated Notice 8 -

This does not include movements:

• between Northern Ireland and the EU which continue to be treated as intra-community movements
• movements between Northern Ireland and Great Britain

I'm still trying to find out what the rules are for personal goods coming from N Ireland to UK, haven't found anything on line so far except for goods in trade. Can't believe HMRC have left a back door open.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks Tranona, thats what I tried to say but it didn’t come out quite the same, I’m sure she will appreciate the clarity!

Chris

That is OK. Don't feel bad about it - I had the same problem explaining how it works to my students. Even more difficult to explain why imported goods are subject to VAT on entry, although using illustrative numbers usually made the penny drop. Almost impossible to rationalize why used personal assets should also be subject to VAT in the same way as imported commercial goods, but it makes sense once you recognise that the EU is a closed market and protectionism drives their thinking. Shame that given the UK is no longer bound by EU rules it did not take the opportunity to deal with this sort of issue, but I guess it shows just how ingrained this thinking is amongst our legislators and their advisers.

 

[Sailfree]

The reality is Covid has place many lives in limbo either self isolating at home due to no non essential travel or stuck in other places unable to travel.


There 10 days enforced isolation in a hotel with serious penalties has IMHO merely enforced the seriousness of Covid spread and the seriousness of the need to self isolate for the 10 days.

Effectively we all are dependant on the vast majority in the EU developing herd immunity due to having suffered Covid or having the Vaccine.

In my close family in the UK out of 19 people (I'm including the Ex!) 5 have received 1st Jab and 12 have been tested positive of which only the Adults and 1 13yr old suffered significantly - far worse than flu and bedridden for days!

The big unknowns are risk of being a carrier even if immune yourself due to herd immunity or variants v vaccine war the Variants cause significant problems.

Hopefully science will win the war wrt the Variants.

We have been lucky in being occupied for last 18 months in designing all the details for our new house in Portugal and inspecting progress while being relatively isolated living on our boat in Nazare but my heart goes out to those that have suffered, or lost loved ones or what was always my worse fear when working of being unemployed and in massive debts.

My son works as a consultant and fortunately he was only out of work for a few months but he is now doing 4 jobs, working all hours 7 days a week to clear his overdraft as Barclays have put the interest rate up to 35%. With 4 kids at secondary school age all doing home schooling he is under a great strain.

I am sure there are many that have lost their businesses and life savings.

Its just so sad for many. Lets all hope travel restriction ease about April and we can all get back to some degree of normal life.

 

[Crisby]

Yes, my wife asked me this afternoon about the logic of having to pay VAT again on a VAT paid boat, I think my attempt to explain it just confirmed her suspicion that I’m not very bright!!

Chris

Edit: Short memory! Bought in Sicily, last 2 winters in Greece, not that it makes any difference to the topic.......

Chris

 

[dslittle]

Well, the boat is back in the water and the new engine is working.

Now it seems we can never return to Scotland - £3k to be banged up in a Travelodge, plus 3 (three!) Covid tests plus very expensive indirect flights.

Looks like if we ever want to go home we will have to sail back.

- W

Still love Nicola??? At least you’re in the sun, we’re stuck here!!!

 

[webcraft]

Still love Nicola???

I take it you haven't read any of my recent posts on that subject?

- W

 

[dslittle]

I take it you haven't read any of my recent posts on that subject?

- W

No sorry. In the Lounge???

 

[Lucky Duck]

Talk of travel corridors with fellow 'zero covid' enthusiasts

Covid in Scotland: Virus elimination would 'come at cost'