Nelson project.

Just to add, the Nelson 40 in post 1 was up for sale for less than £1k last year as i was considering it myself.

Maybe they realised the gear w worth a lot more...who knows.
 
burgundyben said:
I thought of you when posting on this thread earlier.

I reckon it should come with a dowry.
Click to expand...

I just love the Nelson boats, one of the best boat`y looking boats and as mentioned very worthy..

If i can get one home i will get a Nelson as a few come up at low prices for a good project, rather a 40 but that will be a squeeze on the drive and stick out a little. I have two large axles here to make a trolley for one to be dropped on and then pushed back with a local farmers tractor. .

Hang on its to early for this thinking on projects when i have this one to finish still.

Oh and it would be great if it come with a dowry but T will not get me another project as been married now for a good while, them times have gone lol.
 
I have yet to look around a Nelson 40 properly. Had a wonder around one from the outside a few times though.

How would they be as a live a board for two, mainly below decks in headroom. Me n T are both short arses at 5`6" which may help.

I fancy getting serious on one next year for a project to a live a board.

Cheers

Wayne
 
Ignore the 34. So narrow the accommodation is crap.

40 is better but all the cheapo ones you see are ex pilot boats with big wide flat side decks so superstructure is smaller. The ones built as a cruising boat much better.

Some ex pilot boats are laid out such that to get to the v berth you have to walk through engines which is hopeless for your purpose.
 
burgundyben said:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nelson/253765875651?hash=item3b159ff7c3:g:vMwAAOSwCk9bUjUD

I'd love to have a go at that.

The Nelson 34's are a hopeless waste of time in my book, but the 40 I could live with.
Click to expand...

Ben, another member of FOC has beaten you to it, Jonathan Napier..

I have been developing mechanical versions of Cummins ISBe 4 and 6 for three years as you know and Jonathan was intent on taking my prototype ISBe 6 building a second motor to the same pattern and going racing in his Hunton with two of the 550's on Arneson drives.

Due to personal commitments the racing plans are now cancelled but what to do with the two Cummins 550's...

Answer go out and purchase a shed of a Nelson, remove the Cummins V8 504's which most installed if built as pilot tenders. Plan is replace the Cummins V8's with the race 550's de-rated to 450 hp. Typical Jonathan wants the fastest Nelson out there!

I came up with the wheeze of converting electronic rear straight cut gear drive to a front helical gear drive a few years ago, body packing up but thankfully brain still active. I designed my own front gear case amalgam of 12 valve B and 24 valve ISB and another very clever Fairey owner offered to manufacture it for me, one of those 'not one of us is as good as all of us projects' turned out to be pretty complex bit of CNC work as I have to get a big Bosch P7100 inline fuel pump off Cummins C Series to clear the inlet plenium of 24 valve ISBe cylinder head a lot of intricate detail calling on my knowledge gained many years ago working at Ford Dunton on the Dorset motor and some Scania experience, engine making it friendly to service.

Just an early mock upIMG_1589.jpg
 
Last edited:
Latestarter1 said:
Ben, another member of FOC has beaten you to it, Jonathan Napier..

I have been developing mechanical versions of Cummins ISBe 4 and 6 for three years as you know and Jonathan was intent on taking my prototype ISBe 6 building a second motor to the same pattern and going racing in his Hunton with two of the 550's on Arneson drives.

Due to personal commitments the racing plans are now cancelled but what to do with the two Cummins 550's...

Answer go out and purchase a shed of a Nelson, remove the Cummins V8 504's which most installed if built as pilot tenders. Plan is replace the Cummins V8's with the race 550's de-rated to 450 hp. Typical Jonathan wants the fastest Nelson out there!

I came up with the wheeze of converting electronic rear straight cut gear drive to a front helical gear drive a few years ago, body packing up but thankfully brain still active. I designed my own front gear case amalgam of 12 valve B and 24 valve ISB and another very clever Fairey owner offered to manufacture it for me, one of those 'not one of us is as good as all of us projects' turned out to be pretty complex bit of CNC work as I have to get a big Bosch P7100 inline fuel pump off Cummins C Series to clear the inlet plenium of 24 valve ISBe cylinder head a lot of intricate detail calling on my knowledge gained many years ago working at Ford Dunton on the Dorset motor and some Scania experience, engine making it friendly to service.

Just an early mock upView attachment 73327
Click to expand...

I had a chat with Jonathan last week. I thought he was going to try and sell me the Hunton, but it was another Nelson 40...I'm not doing anything until the H31 sells.

I don't get the point of your 24v mechanical engines? It seems a retrograde step?

Up to 370hp there's mechanical 12v engines, beyond that why not just buy QSB's with all the benefits of electronic control?

And, if 450hp is the goal in a Nelson 40 why not buy the 8.3C 460hp CPL 2960?

@FF625 - Horatia is in the middle of a big refit, they are still working at it, she has some old Cats, 450hp, picked up a piston on the Cowes Classic Powerboat Rally about 4 years ago, those engines are 2500kgs each and the cranks a 3 man lift (I know, 2 of us tried and failed).
 
As with all these things Ben.... because it can be done! There doesn’t need to be a good reason. Who needs a 45 knot Spearfish? Buy a Hunton! Who needs a 34 knot Nelson? Buy a Targa! Same for the mechanical QSB. It’s a hell of a project and men in sheds are what made Britain great.
All the best Jonathan
 
jmnapier said:
As with all these things Ben.... because it can be done! There doesn’t need to be a good reason. Who needs a 45 knot Spearfish? Buy a Hunton! Who needs a 34 knot Nelson? Buy a Targa! Same for the mechanical QSB. It’s a hell of a project and men in sheds are what made Britain great.
All the best Jonathan
Click to expand...

I fully get the Nelson project!! I'd love to build a competitor!

I just don't get the engine project, seems like re-inventing the wheel?
 
burgundyben said:
I had a chat with Jonathan last week. I thought he was going to try and sell me the Hunton, but it was another Nelson 40...I'm not doing anything until the H31 sells.

I don't get the point of your 24v mechanical engines? It seems a retrograde step?

Up to 370hp there's mechanical 12v engines, beyond that why not just buy QSB's with all the benefits of electronic control?

And, if 450hp is the goal in a Nelson 40 why not buy the 8.3C 460hp CPL 2960?

@FF625 - Horatia is in the middle of a big refit, they are still working at it, she has some old Cats, 450hp, picked up a piston on the Cowes Classic Powerboat Rally about 4 years ago, those engines are 2500kgs each and the cranks a 3 man lift (I know, 2 of us tried and failed).
Click to expand...

Ben,

Like many folks out there QSB would always be my choice however there are next to no used ones out there, a dealer has some ex Hunton with no instruments at £12 plus VAT each so still require VIP box and instruments to complete the package, suddenly you are on the wrong side of £36K for the two. There are some early QSB's about used on fish farms in Scotland with Smartcraft 1 Mercruiser instrumentation (Smartcrap), the tacho stops recording hours after you get to 10,000 all have those hours plus, who knows what they have done work wise .

I have lost my two contacts who wrote Cummins QSB calibrations, but from racing experience we know QSB with internal oil cooling runs out of oil cooling capacity at 550 hp and you then require sea water lube cooling, engine then good up to 960 hp, over that power level block splits through the stress riser at the main bearing cap and crack propogates out to the oil pan rail so my plan was to have a simple mechanical motor starting at 550 hp with a longer term target of 600/650 with separate sea water lube cooling. Taking a step back, with a smaller turbocharger 450 hp @ 3,000 rpm shoud be simple and sweet.

However it was only when having discussions with other Nelson owners that there appears to be a void in the 450 hp node, Brazilian block Ford Sabre motors have zero parts support, and now getting older the CAT 3126 450 is cracking cylinder heads once over 6,000 hours, Finning charging between £12 to 15K plus VAT to rebuild with new head. Other than new Cummins QSB 6.7 or Iveco NEF very little choice ou there.

You mentioned Cummins C 450 simple answer is find a used one, I have one ex wind farm support vessel spare engine new pistons liners, new cylinder head, new turbo, if I only had the time to finish it.. Have two people fighting over it at £12k all complete with instruments, find a second..

A simple strong (QSB block has far more potential than 12 valve) 450 hp mechanical motor built with 90% of parts coming from the Cummins parts bin appears to have attacted a lot of interest.

Thank you Ben for the contact re: my pair of 220B's looks like they are going into a Moonraker..
 
Last edited:
Latestarter1 said:
Ben,

Like many folks out there QSB would always be my choice however there are next to no used ones out there, a dealer has some ex Hunton with no instruments at £12 plus VAT each so still require VIP box and instruments to complete the package, suddenly you are on the wrong side of £36K for the two. There are some early QSB's about used on fish farms in Scotland with Smartcraft 1 Mercruiser instrumentation (Smartcrap), the tacho stops recording hours after you get to 10,000 all have those hours plus, who knows what they have done work wise .

I have lost my two contacts who wrote Cummins QSB calibrations, but from racing experience we know QSB with internal oil cooling runs out of oil cooling capacity at 550 hp and you then require sea water lube cooling, engine then good up to 960 hp, over that power level block splits through the stress riser at the main bearing cap and crack propogates out to the oil pan rail so my plan was to have a simple mechanical motor starting at 550 hp with a longer term target of 600/650 with separate sea water lube cooling. Taking a step back, with a smaller turbocharger 450 hp @ 3,000 rpm shoud be simple and sweet.

However it was only when having discussions with other Nelson owners that there appears to be a void in the 450 hp node, Brazilian block Ford Sabre motors have zero parts support, and now getting older the CAT 3126 450 is cracking cylinder heads once over 6,000 hours, Finning charging between £12 to 15K plus VAT to rebuild with new head. Other than new Cummins QSB 6.7 or Iveco NEF very little choice ou there.

You mentioned Cummins C 450 simple answer is find a used one, I have one ex wind farm support vessel spare engine new pistons liners, new cylinder head, new turbo, if I only had the time to finish it.. Have two people fighting over it at £12k all complete with instruments, find a second..

A simple strong (QSB block has far more potential than 12 valve) 450 hp mechanical motor built with 90% of parts coming from the Cummins parts bin appears to have attacted a lot of interest.

Thank you Ben for the contact re: my pair of 220B's looks like they are going into a Moonraker..
Click to expand...

I see. Its QSB hp for less money.

Not sure the Moonraker contact was me, but if it was, happy to have helped.
 
Time for a quick update.
As mentioned before I too have been looking at Nelsons and ended up with this one last week:
CA945C82-4D11-46C8-B1A2-0A3C2B228E78.jpeg
With Latestarter we are planning to put together the fastest Nelson yet. Engines are as discussed above. These were destined for a racing Hunton project which has been shelved. With 1000hp we are hoping to get north of 30 knots, possibly as high as 34. Apparently at these speeds stability becomes an issue with the keel acting as a wing.
The boat will be to basic work boat spec, white painted interior with gentle teak trimming here and there. This is a) light and b) cheap. Although she has passed survey with no osmosis there will still be an upper value limit and exceeding that would be foolish. As soon as I can shrink various photos so I can upload I’ll explain which other Nelsons I looked at.
Project timescale is between 9 and 15 months. Watch this space....
Shall I start a new thread or continue here...??
 
Ok.
When the racing project was dropped Latestarter and I still wanted to use the engines for something. I had owned a Nelson 40 from ‘87 to ‘99 and never had enough power with about 20 knots flat out. Obvious place to start. In the ‘90s the fastest Nelson 40 was ‘Debonair’ which with Sabre 370s was said to reach 30 knots. Hence the hope that with twin 500s we should do well.
This was the first boat we looked at:
5B182C77-8D85-454E-BB22-D70A0625D309.jpeg
Promising in the photos but a viewing revealed a huge amount of deterioration and neglect since they had been taken. A price was, however, agreed and a small deposit paid but eventually we withdrew.
Next was this boat, in Holland:
F92AE306-FB6A-48AB-8270-D5C37B9010DB.jpeg
Much better and, in fact, a lovely fit out. Agreed a price(much more!)and paid a deposit. A survey revealed heavy osmosis and the extra cost prevented purchase.
There were also the two really cheap ones on eBay that were mentioned earlier but, having started my last Nelson from a wreck like those, I wasn’t interested in going that low.
Anyway, in the end, we got the 40 from Cowes mentioned above. I’ll keep updates coming in case anyone is interested.
Cheers Jonathan
 
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