Needles / Overly Cautious?

Another fan of the North Passage. The few times I've gone out via Bridge in anything but calm weather it was decidedly unpleasant. Because of cross tides, it's helpful to plot a desired COG and keep a close eye on it on the GPS/plotter, but keeping a couple of hundred yards off the beach until you can see North Head will keep you out of trouble.
 
Was coming out of the Solent few years ago on 36’ cruiser, can’t remember tide or wind but wasn’t particularly bad.
Narrow strip of flat water disappearing to a point in the distance with sea boiling to each side.
Apart from one single wave, more like a big pointy pile of water was staying on the same bearing to us.
Suddenly doubled in height about 2 boat lengths away.
Missus shat herself when I turned into it and opened the throttles.
Sorry luv, never had time to explain that that was the right thing to do
 
rotrax said:
We used to go out on a fishing charter boat from Lymington.

Every time we used the Needles channel the Skipper, vastly experienced, would exclaim" Bloody place-I 'ate it 'ere! "

In the wrong conditions a very wild and dangerous place.
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I would claim to have far less experience than that fishing boat skipper but I share his view on Bridge. Horrible confused seas in any wind over tide situation other than flat calm, nasty bank to the north, wreck / rock near the needles, strong tides.

The other issue is that Needles channel is pretty much SW / NE to you're usually beating to get out or on a near dead run to get in just to add to the fun.


Give me the north channel.
 
Rocksteadee said:
Was coming out of the Solent few years ago on 36’ cruiser, can’t remember tide or wind but wasn’t particularly bad.
Narrow strip of flat water disappearing to a point in the distance with sea boiling to each side.
Apart from one single wave, more like a big pointy pile of water was staying on the same bearing to us.
Suddenly doubled in height about 2 boat lengths away.
Missus shat herself when I turned into it and opened the throttles.
Sorry luv, never had time to explain that that was the right thing to do
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Forgot to mention head height on the flybridge was about 4m, wave was higher than that
 
jac said:
I would claim to have far less experience than that fishing boat skipper but I share his view on Bridge. Horrible confused seas in any wind over tide situation other than flat calm, nasty bank to the north, wreck / rock near the needles, strong tides.

The other issue is that Needles channel is pretty much SW / NE to you're usually beating to get out or on a near dead run to get in just to add to the fun.


Give me the north channel.
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Yet in a few days time the RTIR fleet will race out there on the ebb. My guess is that there will be no boats sunk by freak waves, maybe one or two out of a thousand might slightly come a cropper taking a short cut over the Varvassi.
I think some people have the Bridge a bit out of proportion, it is not Cape Wrath or the Bermuda Triangle.
 
lw395 said:
Yet in a few days time the RTIR fleet will race out there on the ebb. My guess is that there will be no boats sunk by freak waves, maybe one or two out of a thousand might slightly come a cropper taking a short cut over the Varvassi.
I think some people have the Bridge a bit out of proportion, it is not Cape Wrath or the Bermuda Triangle.
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Trouble is, you rarely know what Bridge you are going to find.

I have used the Needles Channel lots of times.

Its never ever been the same, varying from a benign pussycat to a potential killer.

The RTI fleet will be leaving the NC, with the tide in the same direction. Different kettle of fish to going the other way.
 
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lw395 said:
Yet in a few days time the RTIR fleet will race out there on the ebb. My guess is that there will be no boats sunk by freak waves, maybe one or two out of a thousand might slightly come a cropper taking a short cut over the Varvassi.
I think some people have the Bridge a bit out of proportion, it is not Cape Wrath or the Bermuda Triangle.
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True - but if cruising west one is possibly wanting more comfort than many RTIR sailors. I believe that in most conditions that we're Kiley to set out in, the Bridge is unlikely to kill anyone or harm any boats but equally it will be bumpier than the North Channel.
 
Going cross channel, I wouldn't hesitate to go straight out, but heading west, there's little to be gained by not using the N Channel. I wouldn't be going if conditions were bad enough to make the Bridge area unpleasant. Coming back from Cherbourg, if things are nasty, I'd be going east round the IoW, not going through the rinse and spin cycle.
 
lw395 said:
Yet in a few days time the RTIR fleet will race out there on the ebb. My guess is that there will be no boats sunk by freak waves, maybe one or two out of a thousand might slightly come a cropper taking a short cut over the Varvassi.
I think some people have the Bridge a bit out of proportion, it is not Cape Wrath or the Bermuda Triangle.
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I agree with that. Going by some of the posts in this thread I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to have died at least 3 times in the Needles channel to date. Last year we did the IRC Europeans and were sent RTI with 35 knots being recorded at Hurst.
No it was not comfortable, but I also wouldn't call it unreasonably dangerous. Certainly a well found cruiser was never going to be at risk of being rolled or anything daft.
But if I'd been cruising that day then firstly I wouldn't have bothered going sailing. And if I had to leave the solent going west I'd have done so through the north channel. Just because it would be a bit more comfortable.
There was actually a cruising boat that went out of the needles channel with the IRC fleet that day though, so clearly some cruisers are hardier than me.
 
rotrax said:
The RTI fleet will be leaving the NC, with the tide in the same direction. Different kettle of fish to going the other way.
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Isn't that's just a SOG issue? Incidentally, Yarmouth lifeboat make the point that in a big SW the Needles can be as bad on the flood as the ebb.

Re the demons and sea monsters that lurk beneath the Bridge: doesn't bear thinking about what might happen should a little angling boat accidentally hook one of those :ambivalence: ;)
 
dom said:
Isn't that's just a SOG issue? Incidentally, Yarmouth lifeboat make the point that in a big SW the Needles can be as bad on the flood as the ebb.

Re the demons and sea monsters that lurk beneath the Bridge: doesn't bear thinking about what might happen should a little angling boat accidentally hook one of those :ambivalence: ;)
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No.

The wind opposing the tide makes the wind side of the wave far steeper.

Makes sense when you think about it, and borne out by direct experience.

Going against the tide with the wind is far more dramatic and uncomfortable than going with the tide against the wind-the back slope of the wave is gentler.

What I find anyway..............................
 
flaming said:
I agree with that. Going by some of the posts in this thread I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to have died at least 3 times in the Needles channel to date. Last year we did the IRC Europeans and were sent RTI with 35 knots being recorded at Hurst.
No it was not comfortable, but I also wouldn't call it unreasonably dangerous. Certainly a well found cruiser was never going to be at risk of being rolled or anything daft.
But if I'd been cruising that day then firstly I wouldn't have bothered going sailing. And if I had to leave the solent going west I'd have done so through the north channel. Just because it would be a bit more comfortable.
There was actually a cruising boat that went out of the needles channel with the IRC fleet that day though, so clearly some cruisers are hardier than me.
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Likewise if I was trying to sail to Dartmouth in one hit, I wouldn't be wasting time (and tide) in the North Channel, and if it was too rough for the Needles I wouldn't be looking to go past Weymouth anyway.
 
rotrax said:
No.

The wind opposing the tide makes the wind side of the wave far steeper.

Makes sense when you think about it, and borne out by direct experience.

Going against the tide with the wind is far more dramatic and uncomfortable than going with the tide against the wind-the back slope of the wave is gentler.

What I find anyway..............................
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Wind over tide can be wet and uncomfortable beating into it, but running against the tide is slow and more likely to be dangerous.
It's yachts entering harbour downwind against the ebb that come to grief more than those beating out.
 
rotrax said:
No.

The wind opposing the tide makes the wind side of the wave far steeper.

Makes sense when you think about it, and borne out by direct experience.

Going against the tide with the wind is far more dramatic and uncomfortable than going with the tide against the wind-the back slope of the wave is gentler.

What I find anyway..............................
Click to expand...

It's true, normally wind against tide conditions are just as you describe: wind speed felt by the water is faster if nothing else.

But, and I have this directly from some of the Yarmouth LB crew, the Bridge can be equally bad in a SW on the flood. Perhaps it has something to do with reflected waves, bouncing back into the stream, perhaps something else.

Either way, worth bearing in mind, albeit in conditions few would venture out.
 
dom said:
It's true, normally wind against tide conditions are just as you describe: wind speed felt by the water is faster if nothing else.

But, and I have this directly from some of the Yarmouth LB crew, the Bridge can be equally bad in a SW on the flood. Perhaps it has something to do with reflected waves, bouncing back into the stream, perhaps something else.

Either way, worth bearing in mind, albeit in conditions few would venture out.
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Like my Charter Fishing Boat Skipper said:- " I 'ate it 'ere! "

It can be a horrible place.
 
Well we went on Monday morning via the North Channel. We had a half tide spring ebb under us and F3 SW against us. It was of course undramatic. There were not many yachts at that end of the Solent but for what it's worth there were 2 others heading west that I saw and one coming in under spinnaker very very close to the beach at Hurst. I saw no one using the Needles Channel. It added a little time and distance to the passage but I don't think it made a huge difference.

When we reached the Dart it was very odd. The whole valley and river mouth was completely filled by fog. The fields and shore either side were clear. It was like a wall of fog, quite unsettling for a first visit. We crept in and it was much clearer after maybe 3 or 4 hundred metres.
 
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